This Swamp is just big enough for the two of us

For discussion of Khthones hosts and their strategies and tactics
User avatar
CountCrushmore
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:54 pm

This Swamp is just big enough for the two of us

Postby CountCrushmore » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:01 am

So, I tried my hand on another list - this time sadly without a single Hippoxa :cry: - but with two large and awesome Scaly Beasts.

I tried to fit the Krokod and the Vasilisk into a single list - I own both Miniatures, they are both awesome and I guess between them there is not much that will be left standing.

So here are my thoughts:

General:
Gorgonarch - 119
Gorgonar (3) - 162
Krokod - 616

Gorgorix - 94
Gorgonar (3) - 162
Vasilisk - 568

Gorgoargos - 117
+ Lava Threads
Gorgonar (3) - 162

2000 Gold
3 Mainstay, 2 Common, 1 Uncommon, 2 Rare.

//EDIT:
Rewritten Host, thank you for your help Jonathon!
Last edited by CountCrushmore on Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
You can´t spell cOuNt crUshMOre without ONUMO!
Jonathon Chester
Posts: 1221
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:09 am

Re: This Swamp is just big enough for the two of us

Postby Jonathon Chester » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:46 am

Sadly it's not legal bud due to the units making up the minimum requirement need to be 50% max size
One Hundred Minis Challenge 2018 - 127/100
One Hundred Minis Challenge 2019 - 128/100
User avatar
CountCrushmore
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:54 pm

Re: This Swamp is just big enough for the two of us

Postby CountCrushmore » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:01 pm

Ah, thank you for that Info - I´ve read that before, but somehow I ignored it. Thank you for pointing it out!

//EDIT:
The new list is in the first post - I´ve brought the three Units two their effective strenght, dropped the Liskarch and Krokodarch and shuffled a bit with the commanders of the Units.

I have to say that somehow I like the Snake Part of this list a lot better than the first - and the Variety of the Commanders should give me some shooting and a nice Invocation. The Drawback is - if this List is legal I have to order some Snakes ;D.

I think I have taken care of the Authority, but maybe I´ve made another Mistake?
You can´t spell cOuNt crUshMOre without ONUMO!
Dave Fraser
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:35 am

Re: This Swamp is just big enough for the two of us

Postby Dave Fraser » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:16 pm

Looks legit but I suspect not great in the game.
User avatar
CountCrushmore
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:54 pm

Re: This Swamp is just big enough for the two of us

Postby CountCrushmore » Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:42 pm

Thank you Dave!

Do you think it wouldn´t be great two have two big Monsters, or do you think the Units are the Problem? Would it be better to remove one of the Gorgonar Units and maybe give the Gorgorix three Gorgorar instead, or do you think the whole concept will not work out and I would be better of to go full Krokodar Realm with Kadamastar, Krokodar Units and Krokh and leave the Vasilisk at home?

As I said I would have liked those two big Monsters in one host - even if that host would be very small as a result, but the list should still be fun to play with and against.

Thanks again for taking the time to look over the list!
You can´t spell cOuNt crUshMOre without ONUMO!
Dave Fraser
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:35 am

Re: This Swamp is just big enough for the two of us

Postby Dave Fraser » Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:41 pm

It's the impact of 2 big monsters.

You have max 8 activations and most of the army wants to be in combat.

Gorgorix, gorgoragos and vasilisk are your only ranged threats so generally opponents will control the flow of the game.

I've not tried the vasilisk tho, so maybe it's attack is good enough to help control that a bit.

If you could squeeze a second magic missile in (stone soil or crush for the range) that might help too.

That is from my very limited experience I just felt I ran towards my opponents getting blasted/shot and got there at lower strength and got taken off by equal combat punch so having something to throw back feels required.
Dave Fraser
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:35 am

Re: This Swamp is just big enough for the two of us

Postby Dave Fraser » Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:43 pm

Should add, for the cost I found gorgonar very efficient, fairly cheap and good damage output whilst fulfilling your mainstay needs.
User avatar
CountCrushmore
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:54 pm

Re: This Swamp is just big enough for the two of us

Postby CountCrushmore » Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:24 am

@Dave:
Thank you very much for your input - I totaly missed the point of the activations. I just thought, well - there will be fewer of my Miniatures, but they are durable and hit heavy enough, so they should be able to destroy some of the puny humans that are sent against them.

But I didn´t consider the activations, so I might think again if this concept, maybe drop the Krokodar, get a Liskar in there or something like that. I guess taking the small Lizards could be a way to get two big monsters to work, but to be honest I am not a big fan of the Savrar - the Miniatures are cool, but I want to keep my Khtones to be big and nasty ;D.

Thank you for the Tip with the Gorgonar, maybe they are included in the new Hosts that Rob will do next month, if that´s the case I think I will get one of those, and I am planning to get the Gorgorar Host - they seem pretty usefull with their ranged options.

Thanks again, I will think about it for a while and post a new List once I have an Idea where I want to go with them!
You can´t spell cOuNt crUshMOre without ONUMO!
Dave Fraser
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:35 am

Re: This Swamp is just big enough for the two of us

Postby Dave Fraser » Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:08 pm

It's gorgorar that are the ranged female snakes.

Gorgonar are the male combat snakes (ehich I think you have).

Krokodar are bloody fantastic too. Great tanks, but the extra cost per model really hurts when you're needing 3 in a unit.

I think khthones are still struggling to find a balance under the new 3 mainstay requirements, I suspect either cheap gorgorar or savrar making up 1/3 mainstay and 2 gorgonar will be where I end up but then you need to take sthena/gorgor or a gorgorix to unlock the gorgorar or savrar to unlock savrakontar And I can only see using sthena in a themed list.

Otherwise you end up putting a lot of gold into filling your compulsory slots and the army becomes quite restricted for options from lists I've written.

Not played enough on the table to say it is a bad thing but restricted optionality isn't a great feel for a force.

What I found I needed was a way to reach across the table more. shooting, magic, burrowers and kroks with water features are all great options but hard to fit into a list whilst not committing a lot of gold.

But don't get me wrong most of the list has the potential to hit like a train so you'll still scare opponents!

I also want to try out cold blooded reactivating with the savrargos wizard spell.

I also seem to end up with a gorgon in every list I write at the moment but suspect that's just an ease of list building thing to make everyone have the lowest ubiquity without having to think!
User avatar
CountCrushmore
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:54 pm

Re: This Swamp is just big enough for the two of us

Postby CountCrushmore » Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:37 pm

Thanks again for the time and all the interesting Information - I begin to see a clearer Picture of the Khthones.

Dave Fraser wrote:It's gorgorar that are the ranged female snakes.

Gorgonar are the male combat snakes (ehich I think you have).


Ah - sorry, I´ve confused those two - at the Moment the Only Snake in my Collection is Vilthiss - and I am planning to get the Gorgorar Host from Savage Hordes 2. For the Gorgonar - I somehow hope that they will be in the Khthones Starter Host since they are the Standard Snakes (at least that was my Impression). If that should be the case I will get one of those too.

Dave Fraser wrote:Krokodar are bloody fantastic too. Great tanks, but the extra cost per model really hurts when you're needing 3 in a unit.


Well, they are the Reason that I am here (the Khthones Subforum that is ;D), I love the models started to look left and right of them and I liked what I´ve seen - the Liskar (I hope that we will see some of them in the Future - a Mainstay would be great) and the Khelones (same as above) - and now I don´t know why I had a "No Snakes" mindset at first, the Snakes are very cool.

Dave Fraser wrote:I think khthones are still struggling to find a balance under the new 3 mainstay requirements, I suspect either cheap gorgorar or savrar making up 1/3 mainstay and 2 gorgonar will be where I end up but then you need to take sthena/gorgor or a gorgorix to unlock the gorgorar or savrar to unlock savrakontar


I think you are right, the Savrar are the key to get lots of cheap Infantry into the Host to make Room for the Big Guys - maybe they could make it work but I would like to limit my Khthones to Liskar, Krokodar and Khelones - with some additional Snakes for good measure.

Dave Fraser wrote:Otherwise you end up putting a lot of gold into filling your compulsory slots and the army becomes quite restricted for options from lists I've written.


Thats the same conclusion that I´ve reached - and I think thats a good thing for the Balance. It would be great to fill a Host with a Krokodarch, some Krokodar, Kadamastar and Mazikilias and make it work, but I think a themed List with a Krokodarch, Kadamastar, Krokodar and some additional Scaled Allies would work better

Dave Fraser wrote:Not played enough on the table to say it is a bad thing but restricted optionality isn't a great feel for a force.

What I found I needed was a way to reach across the table more. shooting, magic, burrowers and kroks with water features are all great options but hard to fit into a list whilst not committing a lot of gold.


Well, I haven´t played a single game and haven´t read through all the rules, but from a Lore point of view it looks like the feel is just right - Lots of Krokodar, led by a Krokodarch and some Gorgos to keep them on track - but if you try to glue together Liskar and Krokodar you would have to bring more of the uniting Influence of the Snakes into the equation.

Dave Fraser wrote:But don't get me wrong most of the list has the potential to hit like a train so you'll still scare opponents!


And the manic grin splitting my face when I place those two Monsters would add to the scare Factor ;D - I still like the Idea, but I think at the moment it is hard to make it work. At least without the Savrar.

Dave Fraser wrote:I also want to try out cold blooded reactivating with the savrargos wizard spell.


Sounds like a great ability, but I try to keep my Khthones big - so unfortunatly he isn´t an option for me, but I like this Ability.

Dave Fraser wrote:I also seem to end up with a gorgon in every list I write at the moment but suspect that's just an ease of list building thing to make everyone have the lowest ubiquity without having to think!


From a Tactical Aspect Variety is King, but the Khthones Lore seems to demand that it will be hard to bring the different Realms together when the Gorgons arent there to remind them of the shared goals (at least that was how I´ve seen the Lore, I might be totaly wrong).
You can´t spell cOuNt crUshMOre without ONUMO!
User avatar
Rob Lane
Site Admin
Posts: 2630
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:46 pm
Location: Warsop Vale, Nottinghamshire
Contact:

Re: This Swamp is just big enough for the two of us

Postby Rob Lane » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:49 pm

Dave Fraser wrote:I think khthones are still struggling to find a balance under the new 3 mainstay requirements, I suspect either cheap gorgorar or savrar making up 1/3 mainstay and 2 gorgonar will be where I end up but then you need to take sthena/gorgor or a gorgorix to unlock the gorgorar or savrar to unlock savrakontar And I can only see using sthena in a themed list.


Just a point here: the whole idea behind the Khthones was always to push you towards the Gorgon / Gorgór. They are a mish-mash army, brought together only by the Gorgons.

The only thing I may do is allow the Gorgonarchon - and to a lesser extent the Gorgonarch - to do something similar to ensure you aren't forced into using the Gorgon / Gorgór. Such as "Overlord (Krokod, Sávra, Ýdron)" - i.e., restrict them to certain realms.

Dave Fraser wrote:I also seem to end up with a gorgon in every list I write at the moment but suspect that's just an ease of list building thing to make everyone have the lowest ubiquity without having to think!


Good ;o)

Cheers
Rob
Vhalan
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:21 pm
Location: Saint Paul, MN

Re: This Swamp is just big enough for the two of us

Postby Vhalan » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:58 pm

Would love to see more Krokod commanders!

Return to “Khthones”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest