Sáthach and Gairlom

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cornishlee
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Sáthach and Gairlom

Postby cornishlee » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:19 pm

Quick question about Sáthach's Ríonfénnid ability.

Ríonfénnid: one unit from Sáthach's host may change its Acuity to become Trained, if it is Levy; Drilled, if it is Trained; Veteran, if it is Drilled; and Elite, if it is Veteran; all for 0 cost per warrior.


Obviously, putting Sáthach in charge of a unit of Gairlom would mean that they would be drilled, rather than trained. If I'd already paid for the upgrade from trained to drilled, however, could Ríonfénnid turn my drilled Gairlom into veteran Gairmorlom?

I can see arguments for (it's basically the same unit) and against (it's a unit with a different entry in the muster). I'm sure there must be other units this would apply to, as well, this is just the one I'm thinking about.
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Rob Lane
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Re: Sáthach and Gairlom

Postby Rob Lane » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:19 am

cornishlee wrote:Quick question about Sáthach's Ríonfénnid ability.

Ríonfénnid: one unit from Sáthach's host may change its Acuity to become Trained, if it is Levy; Drilled, if it is Trained; Veteran, if it is Drilled; and Elite, if it is Veteran; all for 0 cost per warrior.


Obviously, putting Sáthach in charge of a unit of Gairlom would mean that they would be drilled, rather than trained. If I'd already paid for the upgrade from trained to drilled, however, could Ríonfénnid turn my drilled Gairlom into veteran Gairmorlom?


Yes.

cornishlee wrote:I can see arguments for (it's basically the same unit) and against (it's a unit with a different entry in the muster). I'm sure there must be other units this would apply to, as well, this is just the one I'm thinking about.


Well, you've paid for the upgrade, so their Acuity is now Drilled - so Sathach changes them to Veteran!

Cheers
Rob
cornishlee
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Re: Sáthach and Gairlom

Postby cornishlee » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:31 am

Thanks, Rob. Nice to know I've got this right before anyone questions it!

By the way, I think this ability is a great representation of the proto-historic/mythic Scáthach. Well done!
cornishlee
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Re: Sáthach and Gairlom

Postby cornishlee » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:15 am

Rob Lane wrote:
cornishlee wrote:I can see arguments for (it's basically the same unit) and against (it's a unit with a different entry in the muster). I'm sure there must be other units this would apply to, as well, this is just the one I'm thinking about.


Well, you've paid for the upgrade, so their Acuity is now Drilled - so Sathach changes them to Veteran!

Cheers
Rob


Follow up question, Rob - is it possible to do this the other way around - i.e. Sáthach is in the Trained unit, so they become Drilled, then pay the gold for upgrading to Veteran? Or must it happen in the order already described?
cornishlee
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Re: Sáthach and Gairlom

Postby cornishlee » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:03 pm

Actually, upon further reflection, I think this is all moot anyway. With an authority of 82 (one higher than a Mormaer), Sáthach can only ever be an individual in an Albainn army anyway. A pity, I rather liked the idea of the Skye warrior-guru lending her expertise to a bunch of Pictish highlanders.
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Rob Lane
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Re: Sáthach and Gairlom

Postby Rob Lane » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:38 am

cornishlee wrote:Follow up question, Rob - is it possible to do this the other way around - i.e. Sáthach is in the Trained unit, so they become Drilled, then pay the gold for upgrading to Veteran? Or must it happen in the order already described?


No, because there is no option to upgrade Gairlom to veteran, only drilled (as far as I remember, I'm currently on holiday).

cornishlee wrote:Actually, upon further reflection, I think this is all moot anyway. With an authority of 82 (one higher than a Mormaer), Sáthach can only ever be an individual in an Albainn army anyway. A pity, I rather liked the idea of the Skye warrior-guru lending her expertise to a bunch of Pictish highlanders.


Currently...

Cheers
Rob
cornishlee
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Re: Sáthach and Gairlom

Postby cornishlee » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:12 pm

Rob Lane wrote:
cornishlee wrote:I can see arguments for (it's basically the same unit) and against (it's a unit with a different entry in the muster). I'm sure there must be other units this would apply to, as well, this is just the one I'm thinking about.


Well, you've paid for the upgrade, so their Acuity is now Drilled - so Sathach changes them to Veteran!

Cheers
Rob

Rob Lane wrote:
cornishlee wrote:Follow up question, Rob - is it possible to do this the other way around - i.e. Sáthach is in the Trained unit, so they become Drilled, then pay the gold for upgrading to Veteran? Or must it happen in the order already described?


No, because there is no option to upgrade Gairlom to veteran, only drilled (as far as I remember, I'm currently on holiday).


So Sáthach would turn Gairlom into Gairmorlom but you couldn't pay to do that? Interesting. By that logic I assume that paying for Gairmorlom and putting Sáthach into the unit would change them to Gairaurmahr.

Rob Lane wrote:
cornishlee wrote:Actually, upon further reflection, I think this is all moot anyway. With an authority of 82 (one higher than a Mormaer), Sáthach can only ever be an individual in an Albainn army anyway..


Currently...

Cheers
Rob


You tease! I'm using 2.01 musters.

Hope you're enjoying your holiday.
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Rob Lane
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Re: Sáthach and Gairlom

Postby Rob Lane » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:15 pm

cornishlee wrote:So Sáthach would turn Gairlom into Gairmorlom but you couldn't pay to do that? Interesting. By that logic I assume that paying for Gairmorlom and putting Sáthach into the unit would change them to Gairaurmahr.


Not as such - they don't become another unit, they're still Gairlom, just a different Acuity.

Cheers
Rob
cornishlee
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Re: Sáthach and Gairlom

Postby cornishlee » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:02 pm

Rob Lane wrote:
cornishlee wrote:So Sáthach would turn Gairlom into Gairmorlom but you couldn't pay to do that? Interesting. By that logic I assume that paying for Gairmorlom and putting Sáthach into the unit would change them to Gairaurmahr.


Not as such - they don't become another unit, they're still Gairlom, just a different Acuity.

Cheers
Rob


Ah, I think I'm getting this now - so Acuity increases but stats remain the same?
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Rob Lane
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Re: Sáthach and Gairlom

Postby Rob Lane » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:35 am

cornishlee wrote:Ah, I think I'm getting this now - so Acuity increases but stats remain the same?


No, Acuity changes and stats increase/decrease as mentioned in the unit option...

Cheers
Rob
cornishlee
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Re: Sáthach and Gairlom

Postby cornishlee » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:55 am

I think I'm more confused than ever.

So:

Putting Sáthach in a unit of trained Gairlom makes them become drilled Gairlom with the associated stat increases. (Or would do if it was actually possible to field her in the army as anything other than an individual).

Putting Sáthach in a unit of drilled Gairlom makes them become veteran Gairlom. Because there is no 'upgrade' route between Gairlom and Gairmorlom, the acuity increases but stats remain as drilled Gairlom (not matching stats of Gairmorlom). (Or would do if it was actually possible to field her in the army as anything other than an individual).

Putting Sáthach in a unit of veteran Gairmorlom makes them become elite Gairmorlom. Because there is no 'upgrade' route between Gairmorlom and Gairaurmahr, the acuity increases but stats remain as Gairmorlom (not matching stats of Gairaurmahr). (Or would do if it was actually possible to field her in the army as anything other than an individual).
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Brightblade
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Re: Sáthach and Gairlom

Postby Brightblade » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:22 am

Lee,

Tucked away in the Rulebook is this little Paragraph, there are others but you have to hunt for them;

Elite and Veteran Leaders
Elite and Veteran leaders' FORTITUDE and AUTHORITY
TESTS are never modified by dismay tokens and, in effect,
they ignore all positive modifiers.


This basically means that Elite and Veteran acuity units will always take these Tests on their Base Profile values without any modifications.

There are others too such as Shooting at targets, I believe Trained acuity units have to take a Test to establish who they are going to shoot at whereas Drilled don't... I'm sure there are others too..

On admission however these are some of the seldom used Rules, mainly because people forget about them...
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Grizzle
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Re: Sáthach and Gairlom

Postby Grizzle » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:37 am

Brightblade wrote:Lee,

Tucked away in the Rulebook is this little Paragraph, there are others but you have to hunt for them;

Elite and Veteran Leaders
Elite and Veteran leaders' FORTITUDE and AUTHORITY
TESTS are never modified by dismay tokens and, in effect,
they ignore all positive modifiers.


This basically means that Elite and Veteran acuity units will always take these Tests on their Base Profile values without any modifications.

There are others too such as Shooting at targets, I believe Trained acuity units have to take a Test to establish who they are going to shoot at whereas Drilled don't... I'm sure there are others too..

On admission however these are some of the seldom used Rules, mainly because people forget about them...


This a very good point. For example I keep forgetting my Seer and Augur drunes are wild, so when performing invocations I ought to be taking a (I think) fortitude test or else they have to target the nearest applicable unit (either enemy or friendly depending on the invoke).

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