Kthone muster 1.4 questions

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Kthone muster 1.4 questions

Postby jereme » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:09 pm

  • Ophios: barbed tail should be "tail" and not "trample".
  • Sthena: is Fuse a Focus invocation and not a Sight invocation?
  • Gorgon: Barbed tail should be "tail" and not "trample"?
  • Hydrarchon should be unit size 1.
  • Liskarchon: baleful gaze needs a type
  • Gorgonargos: add trait "Sorcerer". Attack range on staff and dagger appear to be swapped. Should the staff have "sorcerous"? Dagger should have "Dagger of Khthon artefact".
  • Savrargos: add trait "Sorcerer".
  • Gorgorar: Avenger should gain an attack die on Polekhine (not Khineblade).
  • Krokod and Krokodar: Is the realm name Krokod or Krokoda?
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Re: Kthone muster 1.4 questions

Postby Rob Lane » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:48 pm

jereme wrote:
  • Ophios: barbed tail should be "tail" and not "trample".


Correct! Fixed...

jereme wrote:
  • Sthena: is Fuse a Focus invocation and not a Sight invocation?


  • Yes! Fixed.

    jereme wrote:
  • Gorgon: Barbed tail should be "tail" and not "trample"?


  • Yep...

    jereme wrote:
  • Hydrarchon should be unit size 1.


  • Fixed...

    jereme wrote:
  • Liskarchon: baleful gaze needs a type


  • Correct. Fixed to "Gaze"

    jereme wrote:
  • Gorgonargos: add trait "Sorcerer". Attack range on staff and dagger appear to be swapped. Should the staff have "sorcerous"? Dagger should have "Dagger of Khthon artefact".


  • Thank you. Good spot on the staff and dagger! Staff should be sorcerous.

    jereme wrote:
  • Savrargos: add trait "Sorcerer".


  • Good spot.

    jereme wrote:
  • Gorgorar: Avenger should gain an attack die on Polekhine (not Khineblade).


  • Absolutely.

    jereme wrote:
  • Krokod and Krokodar: Is the realm name Krokod or Krokoda?


  • Krokoda. Fixed for Krokodar...

    Once again, thank you!
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    Re: Kthone muster 1.4 questions

    Postby nielsene » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:43 pm

    Some minor corrections discussed in the KS comments:
    1) The Gorgorix's kindred should be Gorgórar, not Gorgorix.
    2) SÁVRARCH's acuity should be trained, not wild.
    3) SÁVRARGÓS's acuity should be trained, not wild.
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    Re: Kthone muster 1.4 questions

    Postby Rob Lane » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:17 pm

    nielsene wrote:Some minor corrections discussed in the KS comments:
    1) The Gorgorix's kindred should be Gorgórar, not Gorgorix.
    2) SÁVRARCH's acuity should be trained, not wild.
    3) SÁVRARGÓS's acuity should be trained, not wild.


    Nice one, thanks.
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    Re: Kthone muster 1.4 questions

    Postby deadlydeceiver » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:55 am

    It's actually muster 1.5 now, but the rule is the same, so I guess the question is alright in this place:

    When I roll for the petrification damage of either Liskar/Vasilisk, does a 9 allow for a further die to be rolled?
    As I'm not rolling wound dice (what is nice for getting round wound- modifiers) I'd say no vicious wounds can be caused. So no doubling up, right?

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    Re: Kthone muster 1.4 questions

    Postby Rob Lane » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:43 pm

    deadlydeceiver wrote:It's actually muster 1.5 now, but the rule is the same, so I guess the question is alright in this place:

    When I roll for the petrification damage of either Liskar/Vasilisk, does a 9 allow for a further die to be rolled?
    As I'm not rolling wound dice (what is nice for getting round wound- modifiers) I'd say no vicious wounds can be caused. So no doubling up, right?

    Best Sven


    If it doesn't say you can, then you can't ;o)

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    Re: Kthone muster 1.4 questions

    Postby deadlydeceiver » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:21 pm

    :lol:

    So on another Khthones relevant topic: Mustering different realms!

    As a commander must include at last one unit from his realm in his command that means that currently I can't field a Liskarch/-on without fielding the Vasilisk. Correct or is there any option to field him on his own?

    If I understood that paragraph in the Muster Rules correctly, units from the same muster but from another realm (in our case Gorgon, Ýdron, Líska, aso.) must be mustered as allies and (f.ex.) a Gorgon commander may not include Líska units in his command , correct?

    If that is true, I got two further questions:
    I recall reading somewhere that the General may include units from any realm in his command, but can't find it again. Did I dream that? :D
    How should the Krokod be fielded? Its authority is greater than that of the only available Krokoda noble.

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    Re: Kthone muster 1.4 questions

    Postby nielsene » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:17 pm

    I think Rob said or implied somewhere that Gorgon treats all Khthone realms as one realm. (not sure if that meant only if a Gorgon/Gorgor (Ophios/Sthena/Xontor) or Gorgonarch/Gorgonarchon also would follow this rule) since they are the liberators/leaders of the kindred. The other realms would follow normal cross-realm ally rules.

    I think he was saying that was the long-term plan, not just a simplification due to a lack of units within the different realms. That does make me wonder why its not written as part of the Warrior rules on those profiles.
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    Re: Kthone muster 1.4 questions

    Postby Rob Lane » Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:40 pm

    This came up a while back.

    Basically, it's worded incorrectly and thus each commander now has this kind of thing applied:

    Lord of the Lískares: If a Lískarchon is mustered as the host's general, Lískares become Mainstay units and, if a Lískar Unit is taken in his host, at least one Lískar unit must be included in his command.

    Hope that answers your question...
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    Re: Kthone muster 1.4 questions

    Postby deadlydeceiver » Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:32 pm

    Firstly: Thanks again for dealing with my issues... again :?

    Rob Lane wrote:Basically, it's worded incorrectly and thus each commander now has this kind of thing applied:

    Lord of the Lískares: If a Lískarchon is mustered as the host's general, Lískares become Mainstay units and, if a Lískar Unit is taken in his host, at least one Lískar unit must be included in his command.

    Hope that answers your question...


    Erm... I'm not so sure... I'm not even 100% sure which question we're talking about... :oops:

    So let me break it down in three straight forward questions:
    Can I field a Liskarchon on his own?
    Can I muster Gorgonares/Hydrares in a Liskarchons command?
    Do I have to muster Hydrares as allies when my general isn't from the Ýdron realm?

    Sorry for the confusion.

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    Re: Kthone muster 1.4 questions

    Postby razormage » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:00 pm

    deadlydeceiver wrote:Firstly: Thanks again for dealing with my issues... again :?

    Rob Lane wrote:Basically, it's worded incorrectly and thus each commander now has this kind of thing applied:

    Lord of the Lískares: If a Lískarchon is mustered as the host's general, Lískares become Mainstay units and, if a Lískar Unit is taken in his host, at least one Lískar unit must be included in his command.

    Hope that answers your question...


    Erm... I'm not so sure... I'm not even 100% sure which question we're talking about... :oops:

    So let me break it down in three straight forward questions:
    Can I field a Liskarchon on his own?
    Can I muster Gorgonares/Hydrares in a Liskarchons command?
    Do I have to muster Hydrares as allies when my general isn't from the Ýdron realm?

    Sorry for the confusion.

    Best Sven

    I think what the rule is saying is that if your army takes any units from Liskar, at least one has to go in the Liskarchon's command. If you don't take any Liskar units, the rule has no effect. Yes, he could be taken on his own, and he could have Gorgonares/Hydrares in his command.
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    Re: Kthone muster 1.4 questions

    Postby deadlydeceiver » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:06 am

    razormage wrote:I think what the rule is saying is that if your army takes any units from Liskar, at least one has to go in the Liskarchon's command. If you don't take any Liskar units, the rule has no effect. Yes, he could be taken on his own, and he could have Gorgonares/Hydrares in his command.


    Hey RM,

    thanks for your answer. My problem isn't with the "Lord of Liskares"-rule, I think it is quite clear and only triggers when the Liskarch/-on is the general.
    Your last sentence seems to contradict the following quote from he Muster Rules (pg 12, Mustering a Unit):
    Every command must include at least one unit from
    the same realm as its commander but may include as
    many units as the commander wishes,...

    I understand this as: A commander can't be mustered without a unit to command.
    The second part allows a bit of room for 2 options IMHO:
    Option 1: He must include at last one unit, that are all from his realm
    Option 2: Of all the units he musters in his command, at last one must be from his realm.

    I think the rule sounds more like Option 2, but that would make the mentioning of "any Khthones realm" in the allies chart obsolete. So I tend to think Option 1 is what's intended.... but that brings the problems with the Krokod up f.ex.
    Or is this the rule Rob meant when he said "it's worded incorrectly"?

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    Re: Kthone muster 1.4 questions

    Postby Rob Lane » Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:59 am

    Apologies for not answering this sooner... I am very busy!

    deadlydeceiver wrote:Erm... I'm not so sure... I'm not even 100% sure which question we're talking about... :oops:


    Oh right...

    deadlydeceiver wrote:So let me break it down in three straight forward questions:

    Can I field a Liskarchon on his own?


    In two ways, yes -

    1 - as a general without a command.
    2 - as a non-commander unit, and thus only under a general whose Authority is greater than his own. As he's a unit within a command, he'd take up pretty much all of that unit's Command Authority...

    deadlydeceiver wrote:Can I muster Gorgonares/Hydrares in a Liskarchons command?


    Strictly speaking, no, but because of the limited miniatures available for each realm the Khthones will have a special rule (at least, for the time being) that allows them to field units from different realms to the commanders/general. Once the kindreds and realms are fully fleshed out, this will be different, but for now that is enough. It may even become a full rule, more playtesting needs to be done here though.

    The only exception will be the Hydrares, who are complete nutters and will only submit to another Hydrar or a Gorgon / Gorgór.

    deadlydeceiver wrote:Do I have to muster Hydrares as allies when my general isn't from the Ýdron realm?


    Again, strictly speaking, yes - but the Khthones are a bit of a "special case" at the moment and right now you don't have to muster them as allies. That will definitely change once each realm is more fleshed out, unless you field a Gorgon / Gorgór as general, which means you won't have to field them as allies.

    Hope that helps.

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    Re: Kthone muster 1.4 questions

    Postby deadlydeceiver » Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:09 pm

    Rob Lane wrote:Apologies for not answering this sooner... I am very busy!

    No worries I know that and am very thankful that you take the time to answer rule questions.

    Well, basically everything is clear for now. Looking forward to the "fleshed out" realms ;)

    BTW: While skimming through the muster, I wondered:

    If a Gorgon with net etc. is in combat with a unit, may he choose to strike at two different models (f.ex. the champion and a regular warrior) with his two net-attacks or are they also automatically conducted against the wounded warrior?
    Also: If I strike an enemy with the net twice, does he have to pass a second snare test in case he passed the first?

    Is ubiquity "Rare" right for the Savra warchiefs? The profile seems rather common... also rare warchiefs seem to be quite common in the Khthones muster. ;)

    It seems like the Hydrakh is the only hydra that is not feral. Is this intended?

    For the Fídron it's the other way round. He's from the Gorgon realm but feral, wouldn't have expected that...
    Shouldn't the Fídrons tail strike be a sightless strike, rather than a blind strike, like with all the other snakes?
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    Re: Kthone muster 1.4 questions

    Postby Rob Lane » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:50 pm

    deadlydeceiver wrote:If a Gorgon with net etc. is in combat with a unit, may he choose to strike at two different models (f.ex. the champion and a regular warrior) with his two net-attacks or are they also automatically conducted against the wounded warrior?


    That's a good spot... no, one warrior only. I've amended the text so that he can only use the Net against one enemy warrior.

    deadlydeceiver wrote:Also: If I strike an enemy with the net twice, does he have to pass a second snare test in case he passed the first?


    Not applicable, now.

    deadlydeceiver wrote:Is ubiquity "Rare" right for the Savra warchiefs? The profile seems rather common... also rare warchiefs seem to be quite common in the Khthones muster. ;)


    It is, and it isn't... when the Khthones are fully fledged out, the Sávrar (and the other realms) will have their own musters; for now, the Khthones are pretty much Gorgon-orientated, and so it's all based around that viewpoint.

    deadlydeceiver wrote:It seems like the Hydrakh is the only hydra that is not feral. Is this intended?


    No, he should be Feral.

    deadlydeceiver wrote:For the Fídron it's the other way round. He's from the Gorgon realm but feral, wouldn't have expected that...


    Yea, that's wrong... looks like they swapped around for some reason.

    deadlydeceiver wrote:Shouldn't the Fídrons tail strike be a sightless strike, rather than a blind strike, like with all the other snakes?


    Correct, it should - the tail can whip to the front and all around him.

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    Re: Kthone muster 1.4 questions

    Postby hdma » Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:59 am

    Question about stheena profile.
    Is it right that stheena is Feral?
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    Re: Kthone muster 1.4 questions

    Postby Rob Lane » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:43 pm

    hdma wrote:Question about stheena profile.
    Is it right that stheena is Feral?


    Absolutely, she's crazy... but that is just Sthena, Gorgór are Elite.
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    Re: Kthone muster 1.4 questions

    Postby Vhalan » Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:05 pm

    The Krokodarch has a listed authority of 17, which is the same as the Krokodar. Is that correct?
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    Re: Kthone muster 1.4 questions

    Postby deadlydeceiver » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:45 pm

    It's fixed in the new muster.

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