Trample Example (Check Please)

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Dan Pratt
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Trample Example (Check Please)

Postby Dan Pratt » Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:38 am

Below is how a trample action played out in a recent game. The trample is complex enough and new to me such that I'm certain we must have done something not totally right during this. So please check it over. It is my hope that this and any revisions to it can help people properly execute this action in the future.

An Albainn Savage Oghurüc wishes to engage an enemy unit. There are two nearby "lively" units of Jute Wihtgār (proxied via Ysian Ax-Drunes), one in front of the other (the nearest unit also contains a Wiht Thain). The Savage Oghurüc wishes to directly engage the more distant unit by trampling into them (and through the closer unit). As his acuity is "wild," the Savage Oghurüc must pass an authority test in order to engage the more distant unit (6.10.3.1) and he succeeds in doing so by using the authority of the nearby Mormaer general (2.7.2.3.1).


The Savage Oghurüc turns to face his target and begins his swift trample move which brings him into attack contact with the first unit of Wihtgār who immediately become confused (6.13.2). He rolls 5 attack dice for his Trample Bulk Impact Strikes (STR 6 - STR 1 = 5), followed by 10 dice for his Trample Attacks (4 from Weapon + STR 6 = 10). The damage is randomized for both attacks, being allocated to the Wihtgār and not the WIht Thain (6.20.4.1.1). Casualties were removed and the amount of damage inflicted was not enough to exceed he Savage Oghurüc's current blood-lust (i.e., no new blood tokens attached).

The Savage Oghurüc does not meet the requirements to halt his trample move (still has plenty move remaining and has not passed over another warrior's base (6.13.3.1)). Thus he will continue his trample move by moving through the first Wihtgār unit, which entitles them to a Reflex Attack Action. The removal of casualties has left only the Wiht Thain engaged with the Savage Oghurüc, so the damage inflicted by the Reflex Attack is minuscule.


Image


With the Reflex Attack Action done, the Savage Oghurüc continues it's Trample Move by passing through the first Wihtgār unit and becoming contact engaged with the second Wihtgār unit. This would leave his base overlapping with of one of the Wihtgār from the first unit, who must immediately make a Displaced Reaction directly away from the Savage Oghurüc (7.2.3.3). The same steps as above are repeated: Wihtgār immediately confused, Bulk Impact Strikes and Trample Attacks. Now, however, the Savage Oghurüc MAY and does halt his trample move and performs a linked Attack Action against the Wihtgār, who respond with an Attack Reaction (thus removing their confusion (6.20.2.3.3)) and Attack Move and Attack the Savage Oghurüc.


Image


Tactical Question: could the Savage Oghurüc have voluntarily continued what was left of his Trample Move to end in the middle of the second Wihtgār unit in order to disrupt them with displacements?
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Re: Trample Example (Check Please)

Postby Rob Lane » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:15 am

Hi Dan

It looks all right to me mate, and yes, the Oghurüc could have continued his Trample Move to crush a few more and Displace them - but that depends on how much MOVE you had remaining of course.

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Re: Trample Example (Check Please)

Postby Dan Pratt » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:58 am

Thanks! It's all getting smoother with each game.
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Geoff
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Re: Trample Example (Check Please)

Postby Geoff » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:23 am

This is necro-ing an old thread I know but just reading this I'd like to ask a quick question, which is, at the moment the player declared his intention to directly engage, why didn't the second Wihtgār unit immediately announce a reaction?
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Re: Trample Example (Check Please)

Postby Rob Lane » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:51 am

Maybe they just forgot...

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Re: Trample Example (Check Please)

Postby Geoff » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:13 pm

OK, but they REALLY should have done, right? I mean, that would have been the correct next thing to do wouldn't it?

This also leads me to a question thats been baking my noodle... Say a unit is inbetween a target and its attacker (and the attackers move rate is enough to reach the target with or without a swift move - let's just remove swift whatevers out of the equation here) my understanding is the TARGET would have to declare a reaction before the attackers move begins, but what about the unit stuck in the middle - do THEY need to make a reaction as well? - and its not just trample action I'm talkign about, rather this is an overall question.

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Re: Trample Example (Check Please)

Postby Rob Lane » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:08 pm

Yes they would indeed.

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Re: Trample Example (Check Please)

Postby DrNO172000 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:14 pm

Darkgeoff wrote:OK, but they REALLY should have done, right? I mean, that would have been the correct next thing to do wouldn't it?

This also leads me to a question thats been baking my noodle... Say a unit is inbetween a target and its attacker (and the attackers move rate is enough to reach the target with or without a swift move - let's just remove swift whatevers out of the equation here) my understanding is the TARGET would have to declare a reaction before the attackers move begins, but what about the unit stuck in the middle - do THEY need to make a reaction as well? - and its not just trample action I'm talkign about, rather this is an overall question.

Cheers!


They would move through the intervening unit if they are larger then it, if not then they would not be able to engage the target, at least not with a direct engagement.

Pg 163/6.10.6.4 under the heading Engaging through

"Larger Engaging units warriors (except Flying Engaging warriors) may Engage Move through intervening units, even friendly ones, as long as they can fulfil all of the other Engagement requirement and follow the rules within the 3.8.5: Moving Through subsection of the 3: The Battlefield section."

Since it is a Move Through the unit that was moved through must perform reflex attack reactions per the move through rules. No other reaction can be declared I believe, perhaps Rob can clarify.

Direct-engagement example: A unit of Trolls (str 4) on attack orders wants to charge a unit of Auxillia Sagittarius but there is a unit of Legionarious (str 1) in the way. The Trolls are well over double the str of the Legionarious so they can move through them. However, since they have acuity Wild they will need to pass an authority test to pick the Saggitarius as the target (see pg 157/6.10.2). If they pass the Trolls player then determines the engagement speed, takes a valor test if necessary (it's not in this case), then the Saggitarious declare their reaction (as well as take a valour test). After that measuring, the engagement distance would happen and the Trolls would move through the Saggitarius

For when a reaction is declared by the target the best way is to follow the Engagement Sequence on pg 154. You'll see that directly engaged units declare it after the engaging unit takes a valour test, whereas indirectly engaged units can declare at that window or after the Engaging unit has finished moving (noticed that's not in the Sequence chart but it is on pg 163/6.10.6.8).

Hope that helps!
Last edited by DrNO172000 on Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trample Example (Check Please)

Postby DrNO172000 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:25 pm

Note Trample works a bit different, you do the Trample sequence against every unit you move through rather than just the move through rules.

And I believe that every unit along the Trample Line and within Trample distance can declare a reaction (as well as must perform a reflex attack reaction, since tramplers are also moving through). Will need Rob to clarify that one as I'm unsure though.
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Re: Trample Example (Check Please)

Postby Geoff » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:49 pm

Thanks fellas, those answers really helped a lot. The MOVED THROUGH unit can only react with a reflex attack action, IF the MOVING THROUGH unit is of course large and strong enough to do so.

Cheers Doc for the example - wonderful stuff.

Hope Arthurs' not been keeping track of where all my questions over the last few days have been leading... ;) lol
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Re: Trample Example (Check Please)

Postby HughB » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:39 pm

Since we're asking questions about trample again i thought it would be rude not to jump on the band (trample) wagon.

If a trampler first contacts a unit at a point that is within his pace value but then continues to move through the unit such that he moves over his pace value while still moving through that unit, is the unit now a swift trampler or does he remain a normal trampler as the first point of contact is taken as the determining point?
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Re: Trample Example (Check Please)

Postby Rob Lane » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:53 pm

HughB wrote:Since we're asking questions about trample again i thought it would be rude not to jump on the band (trample) wagon.

If a trampler first contacts a unit at a point that is within his pace value but then continues to move through the unit such that he moves over his pace value while still moving through that unit, is the unit now a swift trampler or does he remain a normal trampler as the first point of contact is taken as the determining point?


For the first unit contacted, normal Trampler; if he Trample Moves far enough and contacts another unit, he's a Swift Trampler.

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Re: Trample Example (Check Please)

Postby Geoff » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:58 pm

HughB wrote:Since we're asking questions about trample again i thought it would be rude not to jump on the band (trample) wagon.

If a trampler first contacts a unit at a point that is within his pace value but then continues to move through the unit such that he moves over his pace value while still moving through that unit, is the unit now a swift trampler or does he remain a normal trampler as the first point of contact is taken as the determining point?


Hey Hugh. (sticking neck out) I'd say the latter. lol. beaten to it. Yay, was right! :)
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Re: Trample Example (Check Please)

Postby HughB » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:46 pm

So he needs to have moved over his pace value before contacting anything to count as a swift trampler? Sweet. Just thought I'd clear that up in my head. We had a situation recently where a unit of 30mm stuff decided to flee from a 100mm monstrous cav trampler in an attempt to get away from them. In the end they only succeeded in moving far enough away so that when the traempler contacted them it had become a swift trampler. Almost counterintuitively, the unit would have been better served trying to hold and take the charge while the monstrous cav was still within its pace value away from them.
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Re: Trample Example (Check Please)

Postby antoine » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:24 am

@Hugh: interesting mechanic indeed. So in the end "cowards" take risks too :)
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Re: Trample Example (Check Please)

Postby Rob Lane » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:45 am

HughB wrote:So he needs to have moved over his pace value before contacting anything to count as a swift trampler? Sweet. Just thought I'd clear that up in my head. We had a situation recently where a unit of 30mm stuff decided to flee from a 100mm monstrous cav trampler in an attempt to get away from them. In the end they only succeeded in moving far enough away so that when the traempler contacted them it had become a swift trampler. Almost counterintuitively, the unit would have been better served trying to hold and take the charge while the monstrous cav was still within its pace value away from them.


I would say it's only counterintuitively because the unit didn't Flee far enough ;o)

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Re: Trample Example (Check Please)

Postby Icchan » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:48 am

It's like standing next to the world's largest ball of twine. Suddenly the wind picks up and the ball starts rolling. If you stay still, it won't have picked up a lot of speed and will just gently bump into you. If you try to outrun it, it would eventually catch you and when it does it's moving quite a lot faster and has picked up a lot of kinetic energy from it's momentum sending you flying like a bowling pin.
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Re: Trample Example (Check Please)

Postby Rob Lane » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:37 pm

Icchan wrote:It's like standing next to the world's largest ball of twine. Suddenly the wind picks up and the ball starts rolling. If you stay still, it won't have picked up a lot of speed and will just gently bump into you. If you try to outrun it, it would eventually catch you and when it does it's moving quite a lot faster and has picked up a lot of kinetic energy from it's momentum sending you flying like a bowling pin.


Great analogy!

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Re: Trample Example (Check Please)

Postby DrNO172000 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:42 am

Rob Lane wrote:
HughB wrote:So he needs to have moved over his pace value before contacting anything to count as a swift trampler? Sweet. Just thought I'd clear that up in my head. We had a situation recently where a unit of 30mm stuff decided to flee from a 100mm monstrous cav trampler in an attempt to get away from them. In the end they only succeeded in moving far enough away so that when the traempler contacted them it had become a swift trampler. Almost counterintuitively, the unit would have been better served trying to hold and take the charge while the monstrous cav was still within its pace value away from them.


I would say it's only counterintuitively because the unit didn't Flee far enough ;o)

Cheers
Rob


Should have ran faster :P

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