Kindred Musters Updated

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby James Balmer » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:00 am

Rob,

In the Brythoniaid muster the Uchelwr has a warrior option for "penhelwr" that gives him scout and skirmisher. This option has the same name (penhelwr) as the unit champion for the Helwr, is it intended that these are the same?
Also, should the Uchelwr's upgrade influence or compel helwr as some other kindred abilities (skyclad for the albainn) do?

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Rob Lane » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:15 am

JediCat wrote:Got a full schwack that I've been meaning to post:

Ysian Muster
- The Sword-Melusine sairen-song reads weird:
"...any unit engaged with the Sairen unit...immediately becomes confused until the end of their next activation. If the Sword-Melusine unit contains a mustered herald, the Marked unit immediately becomes entangled and confused."
That wording with the bolded part seems to hurt the buffed unit. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding how its supposed to be used, but it seems odd.


That's an excellent one - it's worded poorly. Here's the updated version...

"Continuous Effect: The Marked unit (which cannot be an enemy Sword-Melusine unit) becomes a Sairen unit, gaining +1 attack die upon each Marked warrior's primary combat weapon. Sairen units are Difficult Targets and Difficult Marks, and any unit engaged with the Sairen unit that does not have the Construct or Insensate trait (called the Sung unit), and is a noble or a vassal, immediately becomes confused until the end of their next activation. If the Sword-Melusine unit contains a mustered herald, the Sung unit immediately becomes entangled and confused. Sairen Song may only be Invoked upon the Sword-Melusine unit once per activation."

JediCat wrote:- Meat-Hulk Meat-Hammers have weapon rule “Mighty Blow” rather than “Mighty Strike”


Good spot, fixed.

JediCat wrote:- Brute-Beast Great Brute-Club has weapon rule “Mighty Blow” rather than “Mighty Strike”


Yeah, thanks, fixed.

JediCat wrote:Atalantes Muster
- Pyrokolossos champion says “+1 shoot die (subeam), but none of its weapons are called “Sunbeam”


Already fixed that from someone else, but thanks...

JediCat wrote:Fomoraic Muster
- Armour upgrades replace “Limited Armour”, but no armour is called “Limited Armour”: Mallax Untain, Walvax Untain, Sronox


Nice one, fixed!

JediCat wrote:- Armour upgrades replace “Scavenged Armour”, but no armour is called “Scavenged Armour”: Mallax


Fixed!

JediCat wrote:Khthones Muster
- Armour upgrades replace “Light Half Plate”, but no armour is called “Light Half Plate”: Hydrarchon


Sorted

JediCat wrote:- Trained Savrakontar ubiquity change reads “…and Uncommon [Gorgon]” rather than “…and Uncommon [non-Savres]”


Fixed

JediCat wrote:- Veteran Gorgonar do not specify which realm ubiquity changes (could be that they are Common all around, but shouldn’t they be rarer in non-Gorgon realms?)


Yeah, good spot - I'll fix that. They're Common [Gorgon] and Common (2) [non-Gorgon].

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Rob Lane » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:17 am

demyse wrote:Byzantii muster. The signifier fiend helm grants fearsome, but the magus infernum demon helm does not, is that correct?


Hmmm... interesting. Yes... I can see why that is a little inconsistent. I'll make them Fearsome.

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Rob Lane » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:20 am

VALPHAOMEGAV wrote:Rob,

In the Brythoniaid muster the Uchelwr has a warrior option for "penhelwr" that gives him scout and skirmisher. This option has the same name (penhelwr) as the unit champion for the Helwr, is it intended that these are the same?


Good point, I'll change it to Prifhelwr.

VALPHAOMEGAV wrote:Also, should the Uchelwr's upgrade influence or compel helwr as some other kindred abilities (skyclad for the albainn) do?


Nope...

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby James Balmer » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:22 pm

Rob,

Fair enough on the prifhelwr upgrade not changing helwr ubiquity.
Now, Norse muster:
Gythja has the Battle-blinder spell in her unit card, does this replace the spell of the same name in the Runic Power(s) list? If so does she get this spell free of a gold cost? Or is that a holdover from when spells were unique to units?

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Rob Lane » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:41 am

VALPHAOMEGAV wrote:Rob,

Fair enough on the prifhelwr upgrade not changing helwr ubiquity.
Now, Norse muster:
Gythja has the Battle-blinder spell in her unit card, does this replace the spell of the same name in the Runic Power(s) list? If so does she get this spell free of a gold cost? Or is that a holdover from when spells were unique to units?

James


See the rules regarding Profile Invocations in the Muster Rules, p10.

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby James Balmer » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:46 am

Ah missed that bit, thanks for pointing it out to me.
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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Rob Lane » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:52 am

No worries. Keep 'em coming!

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby demyse » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:26 pm

Anglecynn - most of the humans (forthegn, forwiglere, gesith, duguth etc) are marked as realm 'mierce'. should they not be realm 'any anglecynn'?
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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby James Balmer » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:10 pm

demyse wrote:Anglecynn - most of the humans (forthegn, forwiglere, gesith, duguth etc) are marked as realm 'mierce'. should they not be realm 'any anglecynn'?


If this ends up being the case, if it could be applied to other kindred such as the Brythoniaid that would be great.
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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Rob Lane » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:42 pm

demyse wrote:Anglecynn - most of the humans (forthegn, forwiglere, gesith, duguth etc) are marked as realm 'mierce'. should they not be realm 'any anglecynn'?


No, because Beornica / Dera don't have a standing army, and Eofora may well have something different. It may be the case that some units will become "any Anglecynn" (or for that matter "any Brythoniaid realm", "any Albainn realm", etc.) but for now that's how they are.

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby demyse » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:01 am

Rob Lane wrote:
demyse wrote:Anglecynn - most of the humans (forthegn, forwiglere, gesith, duguth etc) are marked as realm 'mierce'. should they not be realm 'any anglecynn'?


No, because Beornica / Dera don't have a standing army, and Eofora may well have something different. It may be the case that some units will become "any Anglecynn" (or for that matter "any Brythoniaid realm", "any Albainn realm", etc.) but for now that's how they are.

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Ok, but in the muster werbera can be common in a beronica list (or made mainstay by a thegn) but they need to join a unit of duguth or gesith, but as it stands they can't be used in a beronica list.
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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Rob Lane » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:53 am

Good point. I'll endeavour to fix that...

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby James Balmer » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am

May have been mentioned (yes I am being too lazy to check) but the werbera in human form has the same M+W for the two-handed beraex as the bear form, 71 when the human for should be 54 I believe.

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Rob Lane » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:02 pm

That's already been sorted mate - thanks though!

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby James Balmer » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:18 am

Rob,

Brythoniaid Teyrn: Armoured with Arfwisg Trwm (corselet, helmet) and can replace this with Arfwisg Trwm (corselet) which has the replacement (Arfwisg) rule.
Should the existing armour just be the Arfwisg (corselet I guess) and the replacement armour be the Arfwisg Trwm (corselet and helmet)?

James

PS: all those damned Welsh words!
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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby demyse » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:18 am

Multiple entries for Wild or Levy units that have the shield option also have the shieldwall ability text next to it, although Feral, Wild Mindless and Levy cannot enter tight form to adopt shieldwall (2.3.3.3.1)

This might impact the 'shieldwall Dyndraig' from mighty monsters if they cant 'shieldwall' as they are wild.

full list I can find below

Albainn
OGHURITHNE MORMAER - wild
OGHURITHNE UMAER – wild
OGHURITHNE – wild

Anglecynn
WERWULF FORTHEGN – wild
WERWULF THEGN – wild
WERWULF – wild
GEBŪR – Levy

BRYTHONIAID
PRIFDYNDRAIG – wild
DYNDRAIG – wild

ÉRAINN
FIR BHOLG THROWER - wild

Formoraic
MALLAX UNTAIN – wild
MALLAX TAIN – wild
MALLAX – wild
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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Rob Lane » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:01 pm

demyse wrote:Multiple entries for Wild or Levy units that have the shield option also have the shieldwall ability text next to it, although Feral, Wild Mindless and Levy cannot enter tight form to adopt shieldwall (2.3.3.3.1)

This might impact the 'shieldwall Dyndraig' from mighty monsters if they cant 'shieldwall' as they are wild.

full list I can find below

Albainn
OGHURITHNE MORMAER - wild
OGHURITHNE UMAER – wild
OGHURITHNE – wild

Anglecynn
WERWULF FORTHEGN – wild
WERWULF THEGN – wild
WERWULF – wild
GEBŪR – Levy

BRYTHONIAID
PRIFDYNDRAIG – wild
DYNDRAIG – wild

ÉRAINN
FIR BHOLG THROWER - wild

Formoraic
MALLAX UNTAIN – wild
MALLAX TAIN – wild
MALLAX – wild


A very good point, and one I'd totally forgotten about.

Simply put, I'll fix this by amending 2.3.3.3.1. Tellingly, the Shieldwall action ignores Wild and Levy, so I suspect I hadn't updated 2.3.3.3.1 to reflect that.

Very, very good spot ;o)

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Rob Lane » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:04 pm

VALPHAOMEGAV wrote:Rob,

Brythoniaid Teyrn: Armoured with Arfwisg Trwm (corselet, helmet) and can replace this with Arfwisg Trwm (corselet) which has the replacement (Arfwisg) rule.
Should the existing armour just be the Arfwisg (corselet I guess) and the replacement armour be the Arfwisg Trwm (corselet and helmet)?

James

PS: all those damned Welsh words!


Trwm means heavy, so it's a bit more complicated than that... heavy armour could mean armour and helm, plate armour etc.

Anyway - on the Teyrn it should just say Arfwisg rather than Arfwisg Trwm. So I'll sort that ;o)

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby demyse » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:01 pm

Formoraic Muster - Mammax Untain has lower Fortitude than either Mammax Tain or Mammax (Untain 72, Tain 91, regular Mammax 88)
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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Rob Lane » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:39 am

demyse wrote:Formoraic Muster - Mammax Untain has lower Fortitude than either Mammax Tain or Mammax (Untain 72, Tain 91, regular Mammax 88)


Thanks demyse, I'll sort it.

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby demyse » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:16 pm

Anglecynn Muster - Penda seems to be the only model that gains attack dice for 2 handing a weapon, is this correct?
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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Rob Lane » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:27 am

demyse wrote:Anglecynn Muster - Penda seems to be the only model that gains attack dice for 2 handing a weapon, is this correct?


Yes. He's a combat monster!

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby demyse » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:58 am

in the Albainn muster it says that the Oghurithne can bound to 'Cruithne'

Whats one of them then?
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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Rob Lane » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:22 am

Hehe... that would be telling. One day all shall be revealed ;o)

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby James Balmer » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:23 pm

Rob, the Sleanagh throwing spears have a Weapon+ of 8 and a M+W of 8 as well, is this intentional that the thrown spears don't take into account the might of the unit?

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Kenton » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:38 am

I'm getting myself in a muddle with ubiquity.

Are Warriors of Baalor under a Tain of Baalor mainstay or mainstay(2)?

The compel rule suggests the latter but their usual (2) cost has me wondering . . .
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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Rick_Boer » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:04 am

Just 1, when it's Compel (X(2, or 3)) then it's either 2 or 3 mainstay slots. See the Mammax and Sronax for example
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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Kenton » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:51 am

Thanks Rick, that was my thinking (though not my desire . . .).
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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Rob Lane » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:14 pm

VALPHAOMEGAV wrote:Rob, the Sleanagh throwing spears have a Weapon+ of 8 and a M+W of 8 as well, is this intentional that the thrown spears don't take into account the might of the unit?

James


No, that's wrong of course... I'll fix.

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Baragash » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:05 am

Hi Rob

As I've been working through the models I own I've noticed that not all the alt sculpts are necessarily reflected in their options in the army list, is there a WIP set of lists that reflect these and haven't been released yet?

On a related note, Untains/Tains of Baalor don't have the option for a horse.
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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Rick_Boer » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:08 am

Capacx = Horse
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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Baragash » Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:24 pm

Cheers, didn't realise it noted that in it's own entry.

Typo? Sekillias is listed as Kin Skorpion Minor not Skorpion Major.
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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Rob Lane » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:31 pm

Baragash wrote:Hi Rob

As I've been working through the models I own I've noticed that not all the alt sculpts are necessarily reflected in their options in the army list, is there a WIP set of lists that reflect these and haven't been released yet?

On a related note, Untains/Tains of Baalor don't have the option for a horse.


No mate, if you spot something odd, just say!

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Rob Lane » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:31 pm

Baragash wrote:Cheers, didn't realise it noted that in it's own entry.

Typo? Sekillias is listed as Kin Skorpion Minor not Skorpion Major.


Thanks, will fix.

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby HughB » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:12 am

Norse muster

Jotunn and Feljotunn are both noted as feral but don't have a red frenzy dice added to their primary weapon profile.

The Valhrafn raking claws weapon entrry (its primary weapon) have a subtitle/weapon descriptive of warhammer

its not really a typo or whatever but the various categories of raven men have differently described talons noted as having the grab and soar special abilities but they are also noted as having 0 hands on these weapons. Now I'm pretty sure these refer to their feet of which they have two each (one on the end of each of their legs) but I''m just checking as the grab rule requires that you need a hand (or equivalent) to grab with whereas as the talons are noted as having 0 hands. Is the intention that as they have two talons they can grab two objects/warriors at a time or are they only able to grab and soar with one thing at a time?

EDIT: My mistake. 6.23.2.1.2 No Hands. Where no hands are specified, only one warrior/object can be grabbed. Ignore the previous paragraph as the ramblings of a non rulebook reading numpty.
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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Rob Lane » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:03 pm

HughB wrote:Norse muster

Jotunn and Feljotunn are both noted as feral but don't have a red frenzy dice added to their primary weapon profile.


Good spot, will fix.

HughB wrote:The Valhrafn raking claws weapon entrry (its primary weapon) have a subtitle/weapon descriptive of warhammer


Nice one.

HughB wrote:its not really a typo or whatever but the various categories of raven men have differently described talons noted as having the grab and soar special abilities but they are also noted as having 0 hands on these weapons. Now I'm pretty sure these refer to their feet of which they have two each (one on the end of each of their legs) but I''m just checking as the grab rule requires that you need a hand (or equivalent) to grab with whereas as the talons are noted as having 0 hands. Is the intention that as they have two talons they can grab two objects/warriors at a time or are they only able to grab and soar with one thing at a time?

EDIT: My mistake. 6.23.2.1.2 No Hands. Where no hands are specified, only one warrior/object can be grabbed. Ignore the previous paragraph as the ramblings of a non rulebook reading numpty.


Hehe.

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby deadlydeceiver » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:33 am

Given circumstances made me look in detail at the Ysian muster again and I mentioned an error:

Brute-Beast Great Brute-Club upgrade has the weapon rules of the Meat-Hulks hammers. ;-)

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Re: Kindred Musters Updated

Postby Rob Lane » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:57 am

deadlydeceiver wrote:Given circumstances made me look in detail at the Ysian muster again and I mentioned an error:

Brute-Beast Great Brute-Club upgrade has the weapon rules of the Meat-Hulks hammers. ;-)

Best Sven


No problem, I'll fix!

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