How do the charge, stomp and grab rules interact?

[HughB]

Sorry I'm back to ask another rather dim question I'm afraid.

So I'm fairly happy that I've got a handle on how stomps work and how grabbing works (though I'm probably going to ask you to check that I have it right using examples) but I want to check how they interact with charging if I may?

So firstly, assuming that a model has appropriate weapons, can a model charge into a unit and then grab and/or stomp members of that unit? If not, does a model wishing to engage a unit for the purposes of grabbing/stomping just engage move to contact the unit (the stomping section does mention that if the model isn't in contact it can make stomp attack move but can it find itself in attack range by having charged)?

If a model can charge and grab/stomp, do they still get the -1 strike bonus when attempting to grab models/stomp on them? So in the case of the stomp attacks, would they be easy strikes and then a further -1 to hit?

Regardless of whether a unit can/can't charge and grab/stomp, can a model that has the appropriate combat weapons both grab and stomp in the same action (if it passes its Glee test to do so)?

So a Mallox finds itself in combat with a unit of sronax either by attack moving or by charging and decides to indulge in some stomping. His base strength is 10 and theirs is 4 so they are an eligible target. He has a trample attack with the stomp special rule therefore he has an eligible stomping weapon. The trample attack has five attack dice and he rolls a four for his stomp attack dice so he's got a total of 9 stomp attack dice. These are easy strikes and we're not sure whether he's charged or not so we'll just say they're easy strikes. Usually he'd be hitting them on fives but cos its easy strikes he's hitting them on threes and hits them 6 times which does some damage (ignoring the armour that the sronax forgot to bring with them anyway). As he's successfully stomped with 6 dice this then means that 6 sronax are then rendered prone right? The mallox thinks that stomping is great but he also likes playing sronax origami so he takes his Glee test and he passes it like a bose. He then divies up his 11 raking claws attacks and because he has two hands that both have the grab special rule he decides to use three attack dice with each hand to try and grab one of the sronax. Usually he'd need fives cos he has the same skill as the sronax. Does he get a -1 on these if he had charged them? Also if he's performing these grabs after stomping, does he get easy strikes on the prone sronax? Either way the Mallox throws three dice at each of his grab attempts and gets at least one successful strike with each set of attacks. So he's now grabbed two sronax right? They then both take a skill test (do prone sronax auto fail a skill test?) and cos their skill is in the twenties, both fail the test and are destroyed. The Mallox then uses hsi remaining five raking claws attacks and wails on the remaining sronax in the unit (and just for completeness he gives them a bit of a poke with his tusk gore attacks too). Is he able to use his remaining claw attacks to do this and will he get easy strikes with the law and tusk attacks on any prone sronax?

So Mallox charges in, stomps a whole unit of sronax flat, picks up two of them and folds them into origami swans (with moveable wings and everything), carves his name into one their backs and gives them all ear piercings using his tusks? Is that a thing? Can I call my Mallox 'Terry The Destroyer Of Worlds' please?

[HughB]

So it would appear that I've made the classic mistake of not checking what others have asked before.

From earlier threads it would appear that you can charge and then grab and that the charge bonus can be applied to grab strikes. The question then is to confirm, can you charge and stomp? Also if you charge and grab, can you then continue to stomp after grabbing? Finally if you've charged, grabbed and stomped, can you claim easy strikes with your remaining attacks on any warriors that have been rendered prone from being stomped? Usually attacks are performed at the same time but in the wording of stomp (in that you stomp, take a glee test and then either stomp again or attack with further weapons) it would suggest that stomping occurs first and further attacks occur afterwards.

For completeness I suppose I'll also ask, can I charge, stomp and then grab (as long as the stomping hasn't rendered all of my potential grab targets prone and therefore ineligible to be grabbed).

EDIT: After reading the rules again, I'm now a lot less certain that you can continue to perform attacks after a grab attempt. The example given on page 217 about a Vore splitting his attacks between grab strikes and normal attacks made me think that you could attack normally after performing grab strikes but rereading the example, that does talk about attacking normally with specifically grab weapon attack dice after a grab attempt and doesn't mention any other weapons.

So I'm currently thinking I can do the following:

1 - charge, attack normally then grab
2 - charge, stomp and then attack normally (possibly with the benefit of easy strikes on any models rendered prone by the stomp attacks)
3 - charge, stomp, attack normally (possibly plus easy strikes) and grab if elligible grab targets are still present
4 - charge, stomp, attack normally (possibly plus easy strike) and grab (if possible) then (if no longer engaged) throw any grabbed warriors at a different unit

And what I can't do is:

Charge, grab and then attack further by either stomping or performing normal attacks with weapons that aren't a grab weapon (so non grab hands, tail strikes, horns, trample weapons etc etc).

Am I right?

2nd EDIT: Can I still call my Mallox Terry, destroyer of worlds?

[Rob Lane]

Apologies for not replying to this sooner, it's taken me a while to get back into game mode.

So it would appear that I've made the classic mistake of not checking what others have asked before.

Happens to us all ;o)

From earlier threads it would appear that you can charge and then grab and that the charge bonus can be applied to grab strikes. The question then is to confirm, can you charge and stomp?

Yes. You can Charge and then do anything you wish in terms of Attacks. Any Attacks made after a Charge are Charge Attack actions. These Attacks could be any type of Attack - Stomp, Grab, etc.

Also if you charge and grab, can you then continue to stomp after grabbing?

Yes, assuming you haven't used the stomp combat weapon to Grab.

Finally if you've charged, grabbed and stomped, can you claim easy strikes with your remaining attacks on any warriors that have been rendered prone from being stomped?

I am tempted to apply the Mighty Strike rule here (see the erratum: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=628#p5912) to Stomp. But I'm not going to; they're prone at the end of the Stompers' Attacks.

Usually attacks are performed at the same time but in the wording of stomp (in that you stomp, take a glee test and then either stomp again or attack with further weapons) it would suggest that stomping occurs first and further attacks occur afterwards.

I'm tempted but not totally. For me, Stomp is different from Mighty Strike in that there is actually no real need to perform a Stomp in a certain order, whereas there is a need for Mighty Strike - those with just one weapon or one attack die do not benefit from it.

For completeness I suppose I'll also ask, can I charge, stomp and then grab (as long as the stomping hasn't rendered all of my potential grab targets prone and therefore ineligible to be grabbed).

Yes.

EDIT: After reading the rules again, I'm now a lot less certain that you can continue to perform attacks after a grab attempt. The example given on page 217 about a Vore splitting his attacks between grab strikes and normal attacks made me think that you could attack normally after performing grab strikes but rereading the example, that does talk about attacking normally with specifically grab weapon attack dice after a grab attempt and doesn't mention any other weapons.

So I'm currently thinking I can do the following:

1 - charge, attack normally then grab
2 - charge, stomp and then attack normally (possibly with the benefit of easy strikes on any models rendered prone by the stomp attacks)
3 - charge, stomp, attack normally (possibly plus easy strikes) and grab if elligible grab targets are still present
4 - charge, stomp, attack normally (possibly plus easy strike) and grab (if possible) then (if no longer engaged) throw any grabbed warriors at a different unit

And what I can't do is:

Charge, grab and then attack further by either stomping or performing normal attacks with weapons that aren't a grab weapon (so non grab hands, tail strikes, horns, trample weapons etc etc).

Am I right?

Nope. You can Attack normally after a Grab with weapons or attack dice not used to Grab! The Vore example is meant to illustrate this...

2nd EDIT: Can I still call my Mallox Terry, destroyer of worlds?

Absolutely!

Cheers
Rob

[HughB]

Thanks for the clarifications, thats all kinds of cool. Turns out I've been playing monsters dead wrong in the past. Much more stomping and grabbing to be done in the future. Just checking but if all attacks are occuring simultaneously, does that mean that if a monster was to charge in, stomp and then grab, would all of the unit it was stomping still be legitimate grab targets as they wouldn't be rendered prone until after all the attacks had been completed?

Thanks again

Hugh

[Rob Lane]

Thanks for the clarifications, thats all kinds of cool. Turns out I've been playing monsters dead wrong in the past. Much more stomping and grabbing to be done in the future. Just checking but if all attacks are occuring simultaneously, does that mean that if a monster was to charge in, stomp and then grab, would all of the unit it was stomping still be legitimate grab targets as they wouldn't be rendered prone until after all the attacks had been completed?

Correct, although I'd be wary of saying simultaneously - that depends on the Attack type. I suggest you read the p195, VI.XX.II - Combat Sequence box thoroughly!

Cheers,
Rob