Question about devourer

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HughB
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Question about devourer

Postby HughB » Sat May 12, 2018 2:31 pm

So I'd best declare my self interest first: I'm currently pouring over the norse list at the moment as the next kindred I start building and painting once I've got a decent amount of ysian models painted. Obviously I stopped to look at the poster boy of 'bad things that happen when you don't brush your teeth kids' that is the Blood Maw.

The special rule Devourer and the action Grab and Devour in the rulebook mention that certain devouring units can gain constitution from the units they devour but say the specifics of how this is done will be covered in each units entry. Looking at the Blood Maw entry it mentions that Vores are devourers but not how they gain constitution from devouring. I took a look at the Khthones muster list to see whether Vores just weren't good converters but the same thing happens in several units in the Khthones muster.

Is this a case where it was intended to explain the rule in both the rule book and the muster sheets but got missed out from both in error or is this intended and I've just not seen any devourers who gain constitution in the units I've looked at?

Thanks

Hugh
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Jonathon Chester
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Re: Question about devourer

Postby Jonathon Chester » Sun May 13, 2018 8:34 am

Not all devourers gain constitution back, if you check the big beasts (and similar models in the Erainn muster) and it details the regaining of constitution.
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HughB
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Re: Question about devourer

Postby HughB » Sun May 13, 2018 7:34 pm

Ah right no worries. Just a case of my sample set being too small in that case. Whats the advantage/point of a devourer that doesn't gain constitution in that case? Doesn't need to worry about carrying objects and gains an exult token I suppose? *shrug*
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Re: Question about devourer

Postby Jonathon Chester » Sun May 13, 2018 8:10 pm

The second paragraph of the Devour part of the grab rule also states ‘sometimes the act of devouring an enemy warrior can increase the constitution...’ just for reference pg219.

The use is it’s a grab attack so an instant kill on a failed skill test so better for dealing with MI that are low skilled but reasonably tough.
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HughB
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Re: Question about devourer

Postby HughB » Sun May 13, 2018 8:56 pm

Thats weird. I replied to your post and the post looks to have disappeared into the ether. A sure fire sign that it was a truly substandard post I guess. Oops.

So basically I wasn't making myself clear. The grab attack itself is a very useful way of ruining the day of 60mm infantry and gaining some relatively cheap blood tokens yes. My question was more what added bonus does devourer give over just grabbing stuff. Taking the Vore as an example, it has the devoure r special rule but has the grab ability on its slashing claws attack. So whats the devourer rule actually doing for it? Giving the Vore the grab ability on its bite attacks would give some benefit to having the devourer rule but at the moment there doesn't really seem to be one. Its a small point though in fairness, its not that big of a deal.
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DrNO172000
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Re: Question about devourer

Postby DrNO172000 » Sun May 13, 2018 11:04 pm

HughB wrote:Thats weird. I replied to your post and the post looks to have disappeared into the ether. A sure fire sign that it was a truly substandard post I guess. Oops.

So basically I wasn't making myself clear. The grab attack itself is a very useful way of ruining the day of 60mm infantry and gaining some relatively cheap blood tokens yes. My question was more what added bonus does devourer give over just grabbing stuff. Taking the Vore as an example, it has the devoure r special rule but has the grab ability on its slashing claws attack. So whats the devourer rule actually doing for it? Giving the Vore the grab ability on its bite attacks would give some benefit to having the devourer rule but at the moment there doesn't really seem to be one. Its a small point though in fairness, its not that big of a deal.


A rule does not always necessarily have to add a bonus. It could just be that the Vore has Devourer so that it can not keep grabbed warriors as dead warrior objects and later hurl them at people, as a way to balance the Vore. That's just a guess though.
Jonathon Chester
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Re: Question about devourer

Postby Jonathon Chester » Mon May 14, 2018 6:02 am

HughB wrote:Thats weird. I replied to your post and the post looks to have disappeared into the ether. A sure fire sign that it was a truly substandard post I guess. Oops.

So basically I wasn't making myself clear. The grab attack itself is a very useful way of ruining the day of 60mm infantry and gaining some relatively cheap blood tokens yes. My question was more what added bonus does devourer give over just grabbing stuff. Taking the Vore as an example, it has the devoure r special rule but has the grab ability on its slashing claws attack. So whats the devourer rule actually doing for it? Giving the Vore the grab ability on its bite attacks would give some benefit to having the devourer rule but at the moment there doesn't really seem to be one. Its a small point though in fairness, its not that big of a deal.


The benefit is that the devour grab does not need to be limited to the number of hands it has. Probably would rather the 4D10 dice per failed parry than the grab in more instances.
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HughB
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Re: Question about devourer

Postby HughB » Mon May 14, 2018 12:32 pm

So each devour attack can grab? You sure? Rules ref? Sweeot. 4D10 is good but a dead 60mm dude is better.
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Re: Question about devourer

Postby Jonathon Chester » Mon May 14, 2018 12:38 pm

HughB wrote:So each devour attack can grab? You sure? Rules ref? Sweeot. 4D10 is good but a dead 60mm dude is better.


Devour is a sub rule of grab I will be home in an hourish so will rule reference ASAP.
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Jonathon Chester
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Re: Question about devourer

Postby Jonathon Chester » Mon May 14, 2018 2:14 pm

Hmm I’m a bit stumped as on pg217 6.23.3.1.3 it states a grabbed warrior that fails its escape test becomes a dead warrior object and that devourers must make compulsory eat the object linked action.

However you can only grab as many models as you have Hands or one of none are listed but you’ve eaten the model so have you freed up yourself each grab to devour then keep going?

I’m very sure I’ve played it in the past where devourers keep noming until no more tests to fail but I think I’m going to need Rob to confirm the correct procedure here
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HughB
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Re: Question about devourer

Postby HughB » Mon May 14, 2018 8:47 pm

Now that is an interesting point and, just so you know, I'm using all of my available will power right now to resist the urge to reference the cards against humanity card that relates to pac man. To be fair though, comparing the blood maw to pac man is doing everyone's favourite Vore rather a disservice. I can see why your argument could make sense but taking best case/worse case scenario into account that would mean that the bloodmaw could sally forth into a unit of say sronax and quite casually eat the whole unit.

On the other hand, looking at his points cost, he costs forty points more than druc, has one less attack, is in a lower percentile skill bracket, is slower, has less C+A, doesn't have a M+W+Ch attack or a stomp attack (turns out stomp attacks are all kinds of awesome - fact), doesn't have as many hard hitting attacks. You could be onto something - ihe does have a 3D10 weapon but with only four attacks really worth all those extra points by itself when its on a skill 17 chassis?

Interested to get some feedback on this one from Rob. Thanks for setting my intrigue levels to high on this one though Jon. Nice one mate.
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Rob Lane
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Re: Question about devourer

Postby Rob Lane » Tue May 15, 2018 10:20 am

I confess I'm not really sure what you're asking me now, but I'll attempt to answer anyway...

Blood-Maw Grabs with his Raking Claws. You can divide the attack dice from the Raking Claws combat weapon amongst the potential Grabbed warriors as you see fit (so he could try it on 5 Srónax, for example). Each warrior that then fails its GRAB TEST is Devoured, and is dead.

Does that answer your question?

Cheers
Rob
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Re: Question about devourer

Postby Jonathon Chester » Tue May 15, 2018 10:49 am

Rob Lane wrote:I confess I'm not really sure what you're asking me now, but I'll attempt to answer anyway...

Blood-Maw Grabs with his Raking Claws. You can divide the attack dice from the Raking Claws combat weapon amongst the potential Grabbed warriors as you see fit (so he could try it on 5 Srónax, for example). Each warrior that then fails its GRAB TEST is Devoured, and is dead.

Does that answer your question?

Cheers
Rob


Partly, the second question is are models with devour limited to hands limits or and thy keep going as they eat the dead warrior?
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Re: Question about devourer

Postby Rob Lane » Tue May 15, 2018 10:52 am

I think you're asking me:

"are warriors with devour limited to hand limits" - no, it just means if you're not Grabbing with hands you can only Grab one warrior;
"do they keep going as they eat the dead warrior" - not sure I understand the question to be honest...

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Rob
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Re: Question about devourer

Postby Jonathon Chester » Tue May 15, 2018 11:01 am

So a scenario,

A Vore charges a unit of dyndraig and elects to grab with all its Raking Claws attacks to try and get a more likely model removal. After rolls to hit the Vore got three successful strikes with its grabs which the first two Escape Tests are failed by the dyndraig player. Due to the devour rule the Vore has eaten the two dead warriors, is the third test discarded as the Vore only has two hands or due to him eating the previous two dyndraig that failed the tests does this third test get taken as well?

Another example is the Khthones Stousklon and Stousklar (apologies if names are wrong, its the burrowing Gorgon Realm units) that have grab and devour on their main attack. If memory serves they have 0 hands on this weapon. How many models can they grab and devour per combat?
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