Units under Flank or Scout orders in other than Genera's Command
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:17 pm
Can I give Flank or Scout orders to units in a command that's under Move order for example?
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Units under Flank or Scout orders in other than Genera's Command
http://www.mierce-miniatures.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=983
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Re: Units under Flank or Scout orders in other than Genera's Command
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:19 am
Bump
Re: Units under Flank or Scout orders in other than Genera's Command
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:05 am
You need to read the New Order action thoroughly, to be honest! It's all in there...
Cheers
Rob
Cheers
Rob
Re: Units under Flank or Scout orders in other than Genera's Command
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:44 am
Does that apply during deployment?
Re: Units under Flank or Scout orders in other than Genera's Command
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:13 pm
Icchan wrote:Does that apply during deployment?
No, it's an action, so only applies during the battle.
Generals give orders to the leaders of units in their own command and to commanders (and individuals outside of a command). Thus, he could issue SCOUT or FLANK orders to units within his own command - according to the restrictions for doing so - but a commander cannot change the order his general has given him, so he and all of the units in his command must be under a SCOUT or FLANK order.
Does that make sense?
Cheers
Rob
Re: Units under Flank or Scout orders in other than Genera's Command
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:06 pm
Sorry my first post wasn't very clear, but what I'm trying to get to, is if it's okay to give a commander of a unit Scout of Flank orders, if the commander doesn't have the Scout or Flank ability?
What I'm trying to achieve is putting some flankers or scouts under the command of a different commander, not general, but still have the benefit of them not starting on the board.
What I'm trying to achieve is putting some flankers or scouts under the command of a different commander, not general, but still have the benefit of them not starting on the board.
Re: Units under Flank or Scout orders in other than Genera's Command
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:33 pm
Icchan wrote:Sorry my first post wasn't very clear, but what I'm trying to get to, is if it's okay to give a commander of a unit Scout of Flank orders, if the commander doesn't have the Scout or Flank ability?
No, you can't do that with a commander. Only the general gets to do that in his own command.
Icchan wrote:What I'm trying to achieve is putting some flankers or scouts under the command of a different commander, not general, but still have the benefit of them not starting on the board.
No, the commander has to have the Flanker or Scout ability. That's why some nobles have that, and some can't, and some can be purchased (such as the Scout ability on an Uchelwr, for example).
Which kindred are we talking about here, just so we dig further? Which profiles are we talking about?
Cheers
Rob
Re: Units under Flank or Scout orders in other than Genera's Command
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:12 pm
Jutes and the Spiders. They're Foresters, so can Scout (I think). Also their bats are scouts as well, but they don't have any scout commanders. Many can get Flanker ability if you buy them a horse though.
Re: Units under Flank or Scout orders in other than Genera's Command
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:47 pm
I see what you're getting at. The best way to do this is to include the spiders in the general's command; they can then be given a SCOUT order.
It is something I'm working on - how to give individual units within a command SCOUT or FLANK orders without having to put them under the general. I may well simply allow generals to give any unit (not just those in their command) SCOUT or FLANK orders. But it's a higher-up lore question for me rather than a game question - who should give them these orders? Should monstrous beasts be able to do them inherently? I.e., should they be able to do it themselves without input from their general?
In short, I haven't decided yet... but when I do it'll be in the muster rules. Until then, the general's command is your answer...
Cheers
Rob
It is something I'm working on - how to give individual units within a command SCOUT or FLANK orders without having to put them under the general. I may well simply allow generals to give any unit (not just those in their command) SCOUT or FLANK orders. But it's a higher-up lore question for me rather than a game question - who should give them these orders? Should monstrous beasts be able to do them inherently? I.e., should they be able to do it themselves without input from their general?
In short, I haven't decided yet... but when I do it'll be in the muster rules. Until then, the general's command is your answer...
Cheers
Rob
Re: Units under Flank or Scout orders in other than Genera's Command
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:20 pm
Okay... how about this... (in the muster rules)
There is a risk here - that AUTHORITY is ignored too much and breaks the game and the muster rules. At a stroke, this makes Scouts very attractive for that reason alone.
Thoughts, people?
Cheers
Rob
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VASSAL COMMANDERS
In a host that has no nobles within it, a unit's leader - often a champion - could be a commander, thus called a vassal commander. Vassal commanders are mustered with their unit and cannot command any other unit.
Warriors of Beast, Slave or Engine privilege cannot become a vassal commander.
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VASSAL SCOUT COMMANDERS
Vassal commanders in any host - including those of Beast privilege - may also form their own command if they have the Scout, Forester or Amphibious ability. These vassal commands are respectively called scout commands, forester commands and amphibious commands and collectively called vassal scout commands.
This ensures that SCOUT orders can be given to units with the abilities listed above without taxing the general's command too much.
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BATTLE ORDERS
Remember that the battle order given to units within a command must be the same as their commander's battle order. There are some exceptions - the units in the general's or host's command can be given any battle order the general pleases, and some units are subject to compulsory orders - but you must remember this when you muster a command.
There is no point mustering a unit with the Scout ability and expecting to give them a SCOUT order in a command where the commander cannot be given that order!
There is a risk here - that AUTHORITY is ignored too much and breaks the game and the muster rules. At a stroke, this makes Scouts very attractive for that reason alone.
Thoughts, people?
Cheers
Rob
Re: Units under Flank or Scout orders in other than Genera's Command
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:58 pm
In the case of the Jutes, I think the best option would be a low ranking commander RIDING a spider or a bat and so be a scout/flanker commander 
I like the vassal scout commander idea, not sold on the 1-1-3-4 yet.
How about limiting the vassal scout commanders so that their total combined authority must be lower than the general's authority, just so that players can't fill their list with just scouts?
I like the vassal scout commander idea, not sold on the 1-1-3-4 yet.
How about limiting the vassal scout commanders so that their total combined authority must be lower than the general's authority, just so that players can't fill their list with just scouts?
Re: Units under Flank or Scout orders in other than Genera's Command
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:57 am
Icchan wrote:In the case of the Jutes, I think the best option would be a low ranking commander RIDING a spider or a bat and so be a scout/flanker commander
Lol... I'm afraid Shark Jump Miniatures is not yet up and running ;o)
Icchan wrote:I like the vassal scout commander idea, not sold on the 1-1-3-4 yet.
How about limiting the vassal scout commanders so that their total combined authority must be lower than the general's authority, just so that players can't fill their list with just scouts?
Well they can't anyway - see p117, ATTACHING FLANK AND SCOUT ORDER TOKENS - only a third of a host can be given FLANK or SCOUT orders; so that in itself I'm not worried about.
I suppose what I am worried about is that it breaks the AUTHORITY rules; but I think your suggestion is a great idea. I think I will add that in! Well done and thank you. To the muster rules I go...
Cheers
Rob
Re: Units under Flank or Scout orders in other than Genera's Command
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:33 pm
Okay. After a bit of deliberation I've decided upon this...
That should do it. I'll upload the new Muster Rules shortly.
(Really, this should be part of Section 4 in the rules; but I can't change that. Easier to add it into the Muster Rules for now).
Cheers
Rob
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SCOUT UNITS
Leaders of units that have the Scout, Forester or Amphibious ability may be given SCOUT orders regardless of the order their commander has been given by the general. This ensures that SCOUT orders can be given without taxing the general's command structure too much.
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FLANK UNITS
Leaders of units that have the Flanker, Burrower or Soarer ability may be given FLANK orders regardless of the order their commander has been given by the general. This ensures that FLANK orders can be given without taxing the general's command structure too much.
That should do it. I'll upload the new Muster Rules shortly.
(Really, this should be part of Section 4 in the rules; but I can't change that. Easier to add it into the Muster Rules for now).
Cheers
Rob
Re: Units under Flank or Scout orders in other than Genera's Command
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:31 pm
Excellent!
Re: Units under Flank or Scout orders in other than Genera's Command
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:50 pm
It's quite a big change, but sounds like a good one. More wolves in the woods, more walvax in the rivers... A flanker noble (and his authority) will still be required for a an efficient Flank action.
By the way, if some units in a command can be off the battlefield, can the commander be with them or must he take place on the table (as for the general) ?
By the way, if some units in a command can be off the battlefield, can the commander be with them or must he take place on the table (as for the general) ?
Re: Units under Flank or Scout orders in other than Genera's Command
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:06 pm
antoine wrote:It's quite a big change, but sounds like a good one. More wolves in the woods, more walvax in the rivers... A flanker noble (and his authority) will still be required for a an efficient Flank action.
Correct: but this way allows people to take a chance.
antoine wrote:By the way, if some units in a command can be off the battlefield, can the commander be with them or must he take place on the table (as for the general) ?
No, the Commander is off too if he wants to be! Note the limitations of off the battlefield stuff - up to a third of your host... that's in section 4.
Cheers
Rob
Re: Units under Flank or Scout orders in other than Genera's Command
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:18 pm
Ok, thanks for the answer, I think it's a very interesting change. It's a bit of a buff for units having said abilities, and I wonder if each kindred has enough scouting /flanking units so that this new rule keep the game balanced, or if it could create disadvantage for some of them. But let the balance masters playtest and decide !
Re: Units under Flank or Scout orders in other than Genera's Command
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:18 pm
Well, after having used them a bit, I did want a few more Shadow Drunes....
Re: Units under Flank or Scout orders in other than Genera's Command
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:28 pm
A few questions of Flanking and Scouting units, and Thunderous Skies...
1. Do Units off the Battlefield still need to take panic Tests if the weather turns to Thunderous Skies?
2. When they enter the Battlefield and the weather is already Thunderous Skies do they need to take a Panic Test?
3. Not related to Scouting or Flanking, but do Engaged Units need to take a Panic Test if the weather turns to Thunderous Skies?
1. Do Units off the Battlefield still need to take panic Tests if the weather turns to Thunderous Skies?
2. When they enter the Battlefield and the weather is already Thunderous Skies do they need to take a Panic Test?
3. Not related to Scouting or Flanking, but do Engaged Units need to take a Panic Test if the weather turns to Thunderous Skies?
Re: Units under Flank or Scout orders in other than Genera's Command
Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:52 pm
Brightblade wrote:A few questions of Flanking and Scouting units, and Thunderous Skies...
1. Do Units off the Battlefield still need to take panic Tests if the weather turns to Thunderous Skies?
No. The invocation says "All enemy units on the battlefield"...
Brightblade wrote:2. When they enter the Battlefield and the weather is already Thunderous Skies do they need to take a Panic Test?
No. It's just at the point it's cast.
Brightblade wrote:3. Not related to Scouting or Flanking, but do Engaged Units need to take a Panic Test if the weather turns to Thunderous Skies?
Yes.
Think of Thunderous Skies as a crack of lightning and a big rumble, which spreads fear throughout the host...
Cheers
Rob