Fearless

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Dayle12
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Fearless

Postby Dayle12 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:34 am

Not exactly a rules querie but didnt know where else to put this,
When all you people build your hosts, how much of it is fearless, and how effective is forcing your opponents to take fortitude tests,
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Brightblade
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Re: Fearless

Postby Brightblade » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:50 am

Most of the time it's remembering this rule that's the issue, like the other attribute rules, like Loathsome and Fearsome, always so many different things to remember that quite often they get overlooked..
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Dayle12
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Re: Fearless

Postby Dayle12 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:56 am

Thats not really what im asking though
What im trying to find out is forcing your opponents to take a multitude of panic tests a viable tactic or are there far too many fearless units in peoples hosts to make it a viable tactic
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Brightblade
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Re: Fearless

Postby Brightblade » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:05 pm

Dayle12 wrote:Thats not really what im asking though
What im trying to find out is forcing your opponents to take a multitude of panic tests a viable tactic or are there far too many fearless units in peoples hosts to make it a viable tactic


It's usually only the bigger beasties, most 100mm, pretty much all 120mm, and some 80mm that are fearless, along with a few Elite Hearthguard units and Warlords/Warchiefs.

As per my whatsapp post, Frenzied by their nature are Fearless as they care not for anything other than satisfying their Blood Lust unless there are special traits on Characters or magic that say otherwise.. such as the Ability that Joanna has over the Wulf units..
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Dayle12
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Re: Fearless

Postby Dayle12 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:06 pm

Still hasnt answered my questions,
When you build a host how much of it is generally fearless be it by being frenzied or not?
And is mass panic reactions a viable tactic ?
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Brightblade
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Re: Fearless

Postby Brightblade » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:30 pm

Dayle12 wrote:Still hasnt answered my questions,
When you build a host how much of it is generally fearless be it by being frenzied or not?
And is mass panic reactions a viable tactic ?


It's not a question that has a Black and White answer... it really varies, if your Host as a 120mm Beastie in it, it will undoubtedly be Fearless, if the host contains mostly Infantry then most of it will not be fearless..

It also varies greatly by Kindred, most of the Beasties from 50mm up in Anglecynn are Fearless, where as in Fomoraic, its only really 80mm and up some of them are fearless..

Lets refer to your Old Norse Troll Musters with the Gothi and Thunderous Skies, most of my Fomoraic Host was taking a Panic Test, so in answer to that specific question on Mass Panic being a viable option, I would say Yes, but again really depends on the Kindred you are facing..
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Dayle12
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Re: Fearless

Postby Dayle12 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:43 pm

And in that example we played it wrong as we were still new to the game XD
And also thats why ive asked on here to get other peoples veiws who play other kindreds that we dont use,
Im aware itd be a terrible tactic against jutes, ysians and an all werwulf army
But what about albainn, brythoniad, atlantes, kthones, erainn, formoraic, infernii and vras ?
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Brightblade
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Re: Fearless

Postby Brightblade » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:11 am

Atalantes, with a mainly Construct army would be majority fearless..

Fomoraic as said mostly 80mm and above are Fearless, except major warlords and Characters, and in our game we played in correctly ie.. taking the tests, we just rolled on wrong numbers not taking into account general and command proximities and banner, herald re-rolls.. etc

Erainn, only really big beasties are Fearless..

Khthones, it's only really Characters, big beasties and pretty much all Liskar that are Fearless..

I know not of the others...
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HughB
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Re: Fearless

Postby HughB » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:13 pm

My experience is that non fearless human characters often have quite high fortitude (80s/90s) so if non fearless human units stick close to their commanders/generals, they’re reasonably proof against panic. Doesn’t mean that you won’t fail a few tests however and even if you don’t fail a test, non fearsome units are at positives to hit/negatives to be hit by terrifying units. Roaring at units that can see you straight away knocks 20 off their fortitude and may leave them shaken (no engaging till they can get resolute again).

Is forcing mass panic attacks a viable tactic? Yes but you’ve got to be a bit savvy about it. For it to be a reliable tactic rather than an added bonus that you can be ready to take advantage of if and when it happens, you’ll need a reliable way of getting commanders/nobles generally away from the units they’re supporting. Another option is accept that they’ll pass all fortitude checks but have a sprinkling of terrifying units in your combat line so that non fearsome units are afraid as much as possible.
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Rob Lane
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Re: Fearless

Postby Rob Lane » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:27 am

Moved to Darklands Tactics and Musters
Dayle12
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Re: Fearless

Postby Dayle12 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:40 am

Hmmm good points there hugh, but i wasnt necessarily thinking of just using terrifying units,
The byzantii have two spells that force units to either be fearful, and if already fearful take panic tests,
Or to just straight take a panic reaction (also spend more temper to apply modifiers to panic test)

So generally forcing my opponents to take said panic tests whenever i deem fit to, but adding in a monster that can roar, and attach fearful to the unit it could help bypass commanders fortitude

But in another way take out the commanders (sometimes no easy feat in itself) and suddenly panic tests look so much more tempting

But either way its given me some food for thought
HughB
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Re: Fearless

Postby HughB » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:26 pm

Hi Dayle

Those sound like useful spells in that case. Not wishing to teach you how to suck eggs but as I've already stated, being shaken limits what a unit (particularly a unit without ranged weapons) can actually achieve on the battle field so worth reviewing the requirements for units wishing to engage. If you've managed to put a shaken token on the character that would usually incite that unit back to resolute status that can be a real headache for your opponent. Roaring monsters are a good way of applying panic/making units shaken yeah - the +20 to your roll if you can see the roarer turns a fairly safe fortitude check into a rather more dicey fortitude check and if you force enough tests, eventually you'll get a fail. Always remember to roar.

Norse are masters at this sort of thing. Dive and slash is a very good way to use circlers to attack your opponents chain of command. Take out a general or a commander or two and all of a sudden you're struggling to change orders, retain the initiative or have a decent chance of going first at the start of a turn. There's nothing currently in the byantii list off the top of my head that could do this but that doesn't mean you can't use Alix or Golgog to get some circlers into your list potentially. Or look at what infernii might have thats upcoming. The most basic way of doing it would be to double up on ballistae and focus fire with them onto whathever unit your opponents general is sat within. Put enough wood in the air and some of it is going to land in their face.

Depends what you're looking to achieve I suppose. If you're trying to get your opponent to route off the board en masse you'll probably be disappointed. If you can invest a few points into things that can also be used to complete other tasks when you come up against armies that don't care about psychology then having a sneaky plan to attack your opponents command structure can play merry hell with their battle plans and reduce what they can achieve with their units.
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Dayle12
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Re: Fearless

Postby Dayle12 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:57 am

Well heres my list so far
Its very much and in your face beat stick of a force but we'll see how it does when i next grab a game

General
Demiurion
10x demi legionaiires
5x ignilegionaiires
1x demimagus (hellfire, dread, doom, hellpit, demonic posession)

Commander
Demiurion
10x demilegionaiires
5x ignilegionaiires
1x demimagus (hellfire, dread, doom, hellpit, demonic posession)

Commander
Auxiliarius option beastiarius.
5x auxilia beastiarius
1x bound tarask

The idea is both demilegionaiires flank the tarask,
Demimagus hide within the ignilegionairres
But everything wants to get stuck into combat as quickly as possible, as thats when ill be able to majorly start throwing around panic reactions, from hellfire effects, demi's and igni's being fearsome and loathsome, the taeask being terryfying and roaring (which id never considered before), and the demimagus throwing pankc reaction when i need them
I know that list is a little short of activations only coming in at 5, but i think everything is durable and can hold theit own against most things,

But good idea about alix pr golgog, i never really consider sellswords tbh and ive never really had good look with any of the ballista's, should probably use them more just to see what they can do on a good day
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Re: Fearless

Postby Jonathon Chester » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:23 am

Ah subtly out the window approach. I like it!
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Icchan
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Re: Fearless

Postby Icchan » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:38 pm

Those Demimagus have too many spells assigned to them. They're Sorcere (3), so can only have three spells each.
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Dayle12
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Re: Fearless

Postby Dayle12 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:01 am

Okay so update on this list
Facing off against grizzles albainn horde,
Quite a literal horde came in at like 90 miniautres on the board on his side, whilst 41 on mine

Threw quite a few panic test at them,
Forcing his ogurithne at rather inconvenient times to flee twice, from hellfire panic tests,

Althoughly mostly he passed all his tests
Ignilegionairres managed to deal quite a bit of damage to the ogurithne units, along with demi magus casting hellfire with increased dice

Never used either of the doom or dread spell just never got a chance,

Whilst the tarask managed to batter his way through a unit of gairlorm in a couple of turns,

Overall we managed 5 turns in 2.5 hours, and grizzle ended up left with 12 ogurithne fleeing the rest were dead
Whilst 1 demilegionairre died,

So all in all whilst causing panic tests helped massively i dont think its a tactic i can rely on all the time, i did struggle to take out his commanders first, so that may have helped if id managed it
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Rob Lane
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Re: Fearless

Postby Rob Lane » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:46 pm

Interesting. Pretty much what I hoped for really!

It's a valid tactic - but it's not a game breaker.

Andy only killed one Demilegionarius?

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cornishlee
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Re: Fearless

Postby cornishlee » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:23 pm

Dayle12 wrote:Forcing his ogurithne at rather inconvenient times to flee


To be honest, that seems rather par for the course where the oghurithne are concerned. They've fled in half the games I've played with them, so far.
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Brightblade
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Re: Fearless

Postby Brightblade » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:37 pm

Rob Lane wrote:Interesting. Pretty much what I hoped for really!

It's a valid tactic - but it's not a game breaker.

Andy only killed one Demilegionarius?

Cheers
Rob


I wasn't there but I saw the aftermath in pictures, seemed a pretty one sided battle...
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Grizzle
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Re: Fearless

Postby Grizzle » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:38 pm

Brightblade wrote:
Rob Lane wrote:Interesting. Pretty much what I hoped for really!

It's a valid tactic - but it's not a game breaker.

Andy only killed one Demilegionarius?

Cheers
Rob


I wasn't there but I saw the aftermath in pictures, seemed a pretty one sided battle...


cornishlee wrote:
Dayle12 wrote:Forcing his ogurithne at rather inconvenient times to flee


To be honest, that seems rather par for the course where the oghurithne are concerned. They've fled in half the games I've played with them, so far.


Yep, but I've realised there are other things I could do to mitigate that, plus I wasn't playing absorb correctly.

Rob Lane wrote:Interesting. Pretty much what I hoped for really!

It's a valid tactic - but it's not a game breaker.

Andy only killed one Demilegionarius?

Cheers
Rob



Yeah, although I rolled some fairly poor dice as well, for example 49 attacks from gairlom on a tarask and only got 1 fated hit.

My muster was very straightforward, I just wanted to try out a horde.

1 mormaer with 30 gairlom and a morsagart
1 umaer with 30 gairlom and a 2nd morsagart
1 Oghurithne umaer with 10 Oghurithne and 1 hunter (spare points)
1 Oghurithne umaer with 10 Oghurithne

In future I think ill drop the two morsagart down to just sagart, as there was really only one invoke I used all game, get rid of the one random hunter and take an Oghurithne channeller & Oghurithne Unund for some invoke support for the Oghurithne and the rerolls on 18" for fortitude tests, plus extra absorb.

What also didn't help was the awkwardness of positioning with units bottled up around the terrain, my deployment in relation to said terrain and Dayle dropping down hellpits. Unit's like the Goghu would probably also be a good idea, or some more ranged support from hunters & stone throwers. We did also play the hook rule incorrectly in one combat, but I'm not sure it would have made much of a difference.
cornishlee
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Re: Fearless

Postby cornishlee » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:04 pm

Grizzle wrote:In future I think ill drop the two morsagart down to just sagart, as there was really only one invoke I used all game, get rid of the one random hunter and take an Oghurithne channeller & Oghurithne Unund for some invoke support for the Oghurithne and the rerolls on 18" for fortitude tests, plus extra absorb.

What also didn't help was the awkwardness of positioning with units bottled up around the terrain, my deployment in relation to said terrain and Dayle dropping down hellpits. Unit's like the Goghu would probably also be a good idea, or some more ranged support from hunters & stone throwers. We did also play the hook rule incorrectly in one combat, but I'm not sure it would have made much of a difference.


Yeah, I think getting a load of oghu stones (and, therefore, potential absorbed dice) on the table is essential for doing anything with the Albainn magic. Having both ranged support and big units is also important. I admire your faith in Gairlom, though.
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Grizzle
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Re: Fearless

Postby Grizzle » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:05 pm

cornishlee wrote:
Grizzle wrote:In future I think ill drop the two morsagart down to just sagart, as there was really only one invoke I used all game, get rid of the one random hunter and take an Oghurithne channeller & Oghurithne Unund for some invoke support for the Oghurithne and the rerolls on 18" for fortitude tests, plus extra absorb.

What also didn't help was the awkwardness of positioning with units bottled up around the terrain, my deployment in relation to said terrain and Dayle dropping down hellpits. Unit's like the Goghu would probably also be a good idea, or some more ranged support from hunters & stone throwers. We did also play the hook rule incorrectly in one combat, but I'm not sure it would have made much of a difference.


Yeah, I think getting a load of oghu stones (and, therefore, potential absorbed dice) on the table is essential for doing anything with the Albainn magic. Having both ranged support and big units is also important. I admire your faith in Gairlom, though.


It's a mix of having a soft spot for them (and their low low cost) and the sunken cost fallacy of having lots of their models. :lol:
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Rob Lane
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Re: Fearless

Postby Rob Lane » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:34 pm

Gairlom are acecakes. I use at least two units of them, they're so cheap!

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Dayle12
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Re: Fearless

Postby Dayle12 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:41 pm

Rob Lane wrote:Interesting. Pretty much what I hoped for really!

It's a valid tactic - but it's not a game breaker.

Andy only killed one Demilegionarius?

Cheers
Rob


Give me a few more games with this list and ill be able to tell you how well it performs, we got roaring a little bit wrong but other than not actually casting doom or dread it did alright

And yeah he made a couple bad decisions mainly deployment, means i got the charges i wanted in, and a cleverly put hellpit helped prevent another charge

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