Blinding and how to stop it

Show off your own musters and the tactics you use here!
User avatar
Brightblade
Posts: 1045
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Blinding and how to stop it

Postby Brightblade » Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:28 am

I know other players don't have an issue with this, but for me it is a massive bone of contention, and in reality spoils my enjoyment of the game when you know you are going to play a kindred that is constantly going to Blind your army, which is, regardless of what these other players say, if you have not defense or offense against it is a Game Changer..

So my question is, how to combat this, without having Spray weapons, and without being able to Summon Monsters or unit damaging Templates willy nilly, and without taking a tonne of sorcerers in your host who spend their entire game earthing out the Mutable Blind invoke...

If the Blind invoke was Transcient, I don't think I'd have an issue, but with it Mutable, once it goes off, and when you have sorcerers that can cast the same Invoke twice in an activation it is pretty much assured to go off barring any extremely bad dice rolls twice, with it Mutable you have no option but to attempt to Earth it out each time it is cast or simply lose the Battle if you don't have the aforementioned arsenal in your Hosts...


So, how can you combat this? Please don't mention anything that I have already listed above, as none of my kindreds have them, so it's pointless, if your hosts have them and you want to answer then assume that your host does not have them, how would you combat it then...

Sorry for my abruptness of this post, but seriously getting frustrated now, and it's spoiling my enjoyment of the game, you know youve reaached that point when you end the game, and not a word is spoken by either party as you pack away... Thats when you know you need to get help or stop what you are doing as you no longer enjoy it...
Devlin Brightblade, Lord of Saxon Hammerwich, Slayer of Trolls, Tamer of Manticores, Petter of Flint Flang the Kill Thing from the Infernal Pits..

As you slide down the Bannister of Life, may the Splinters be kind...
User avatar
demyse
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Blinding and how to stop it

Postby demyse » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:39 pm

some suggestions that aren't listed above, apologies if you have tried it, and im not sure what army you are using

Work some redundancy into your list, if you are using large units, maybe use multiple, smaller units? that might spread out the options of who your opponent will blind? if you are using a deathstar unit that gets blinded that sucks, but multiple smaller units could take it long enough for the wizard to be delt with

Concentrate on killing the wizard casting the spell? if you know your opponent is going to do it (and its a focus spell so they need to get relatively close unless the boost the heck out of it), maybe use ranged/flankers/ambushers/crush templates/fearsome units (if the mage isn't fearless) to concentrate on the wizard first?

Sell swords? there are some mage ones/flanky ones/fast ones that might help pick off the mages first?

Maybe taking a wizard or 2 in their pants with a cheap spell for the earth dice? or maybe some allies that can do that?

once again sorry if you have already tried all those, but those are my first suggestions
100mini18-103 mierce(68 other)
100mini19-69 mierce(91 other)
100mini20-216 mierce(517 other)
Jonathon Chester
Posts: 1324
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:09 am

Re: Blinding and how to stop it

Postby Jonathon Chester » Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:07 pm

A few thoughts based on the hosts I’m aware you have.

- ambush - wolves have a decent chance of ambushing out of a wood into the unit so the wizard can’t hold and invoke. Erainn can do this as well with the Feb beasts.

- how many wizards/anti magic models do you tend to run? If you run none then that’s part the problem, if you have one or two then that’s not the hugest investment to counter blind. Additionally if you have focus spells that can pick out the wizard that’s a way to snipe them.

- golden rule, if you’re not having fun have a chat with your opponent and ask if next time they can not take the spell? I’m sure Andy isn’t a dick!

- flank or scouting options
One Hundred Minis Challenge 2018 - 127/100
One Hundred Minis Challenge 2019 - 128/100
One Hundred Minis Challenge 2020 - 100/100
One Hundred Minis Challenge 2021 - 12/100
User avatar
Rob Lane
Site Admin
Posts: 3701
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:46 pm
Location: Warsop Vale, Nottinghamshire
Contact:

Re: Blinding and how to stop it

Postby Rob Lane » Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:53 pm

All of the above, plus:

1 - Force the Initiative; using two units to Engage means he can only Blind one of them.
2 - Shoot his wizards. You have Sávrakontar, which are scouts; use them as such. I find them very distracting. Two units of 5 is all you need for that.

Give me your list and Andy's list and we'll see what else can be done...

Cheers
Rob
User avatar
Brightblade
Posts: 1045
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: Blinding and how to stop it

Postby Brightblade » Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:07 pm

Rob Lane wrote:All of the above, plus:

1 - Force the Initiative; using two units to Engage means he can only Blind one of them.
2 - Shoot his wizards. You have Sávrakontar, which are scouts; use them as such. I find them very distracting. Two units of 5 is all you need for that.

Give me your list and Andy's list and we'll see what else can be done...

Cheers
Rob


I was using 20 Savrakontar, 20 Savra, with the Savrach as General, with two Savragos, this was one unit, I built it this way to try and prevent it being blinded as it would have been a lot of Temper points.

I then also have a Szalamakh, and proxied 10 Savrakars and a Savrakarch.

The Big unit of infantry worked with regards to not getting blinded but was then prone to big monster attacks, and stomping...etc, perhaps we played the Sunray invoke wrong I don't know, see the other posts on that..

We got to end of Battle hour 2 when I gave up, after losing nearly all of my now Blind Savrakar, and Blind Szalamakh, and now Blind Savra, which I had opted to leave the bound unit..

I didn't see any point carrying on after that..

I'd managed to Kill his Meat Hulk, and a couple of Flesh thingies... But he still had two other Monsters, his Chimera and Manticore and two sorcerers left out of 3, as one had blown itself up..
Devlin Brightblade, Lord of Saxon Hammerwich, Slayer of Trolls, Tamer of Manticores, Petter of Flint Flang the Kill Thing from the Infernal Pits..

As you slide down the Bannister of Life, may the Splinters be kind...
User avatar
Rob Lane
Site Admin
Posts: 3701
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:46 pm
Location: Warsop Vale, Nottinghamshire
Contact:

Re: Blinding and how to stop it

Postby Rob Lane » Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:45 pm

Brightblade wrote:I was using 20 Savrakontar, 20 Savra, with the Savrach as General, with two Savragos, this was one unit, I built it this way to try and prevent it being blinded as it would have been a lot of Temper points.


That's your problem - it's too big a target. Split them into 5x Sávrakontar, 5x Sávrakontar (so they can Scout), 10x Sávrakontar (perhaps again Scouting or at least in the scouting ground after every one else has positioned) and keep the Sávra and nobles in one unit. I'd even consider floating both Sávrargós if you've got some terrain to hide in.

With that unit being one activation, you're seriously hampering your activations and ability to Earth or react to what Andy's doing.

Brightblade wrote:I then also have a Szalamakh, and proxied 10 Savrakars and a Savrakarch.

The Big unit of infantry worked with regards to not getting blinded but was then prone to big monster attacks, and stomping...etc, perhaps we played the Sunray invoke wrong I don't know, see the other posts on that..


Possibly but used wrong more I think - it's meant to stop enemies engaging, really, or shooting, because they can't see far enough.

Brightblade wrote:We got to end of Battle hour 2 when I gave up, after losing nearly all of my now Blind Savrakar, and Blind Szalamakh, and now Blind Savra, which I had opted to leave the bound unit..

I didn't see any point carrying on after that..

I'd managed to Kill his Meat Hulk, and a couple of Flesh thingies... But he still had two other Monsters, his Chimera and Manticore and two sorcerers left out of 3, as one had blown itself up..


I'd like to see it in action of course - perhaps you can pop up sometime Andy?

Cheers
Rob
User avatar
Grizzle
Posts: 413
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:36 am

Re: Blinding and how to stop it

Postby Grizzle » Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:50 pm

For Khthones I've also made some suggestions myself, like making use of stoskoular which have unseen and can emerge behind the lines to get at the sorcerers. Or maybe waiting till my casters are vulnerable and getting a low temper one with a spell like Fuse.

My list was:

War Drune (general)

Host command - Augur drune (with blind, wrath of Kernunnos, blades of kernunnos, Curse of Kernunnos and Bursting Flesh)

Individual Augur Drune (with same spells as the other one).

Individual Seer Drune (with curse and bursting flesh).

Flesh drune with summoned nithings
Chimera

Flesh drune with summoned nithings
Meat hulk with hammers and armour

Flesh drune with summoned nithings
Mantichora.
Last edited by Grizzle on Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Rob Lane
Site Admin
Posts: 3701
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:46 pm
Location: Warsop Vale, Nottinghamshire
Contact:

Re: Blinding and how to stop it

Postby Rob Lane » Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:57 pm

With the augur and seer drunes being individuals, you can't Join them to units so they are very vulnerable to Shooting and sorcery. And Scouts!

Cheers
Rob
User avatar
Grizzle
Posts: 413
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:36 am

Re: Blinding and how to stop it

Postby Grizzle » Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:58 pm

Rob Lane wrote:With the augur and seer drunes being individuals, you can't Join them to units so they are very vulnerable to Shooting and sorcery. And Scouts!

Cheers
Rob


Yeah, that's a big vulnerability, playing this way.

Also, I'm down for popping up for some test games.
User avatar
Brightblade
Posts: 1045
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: Blinding and how to stop it

Postby Brightblade » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:16 pm

I will give all these options a go, and see how I get on.. thanks for your input guys, this is what this community is for..
Devlin Brightblade, Lord of Saxon Hammerwich, Slayer of Trolls, Tamer of Manticores, Petter of Flint Flang the Kill Thing from the Infernal Pits..

As you slide down the Bannister of Life, may the Splinters be kind...
User avatar
Brightblade
Posts: 1045
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: Blinding and how to stop it

Postby Brightblade » Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:54 pm

So here's my list i've come up with based on feedback to Combat Blind; Excited to see how this plays...

GORGÓR - General (Earthed, Boiling Rock, Fuse, Bleed, Maw of Khthon)

SÁVRARGÓS - Host Command (Sunskull, Boiling Rock, Bleed)
SKOSÁVRAR x 20 - Hearthguard - Host Command (Free Champions, Sword, Veteran)

SÁVRARCH - Commander (Akontion, Skirmisher)
SÁVRAKONTAR x 10 - Mainstay (Free Champion, Trained)
SÁVRAKONTAR x 5 - Common (Trained) - Scouting
SÁVRAKONTAR x 5 - Common (Trained) - Scouting
SZALAMAKH

SÁVRAKARCH - Commander (Beaten Armour)
SÁVRAKAR x 5 - Mainstay (Free Champion, Light Armour)
SÁVRAKAR x 3 - Mainstay (Light Armour)

SÁVRARGÓS - Individual (Boiling Rock, Fuse, Earthed)
Devlin Brightblade, Lord of Saxon Hammerwich, Slayer of Trolls, Tamer of Manticores, Petter of Flint Flang the Kill Thing from the Infernal Pits..

As you slide down the Bannister of Life, may the Splinters be kind...
User avatar
Rob Lane
Site Admin
Posts: 3701
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:46 pm
Location: Warsop Vale, Nottinghamshire
Contact:

Re: Blinding and how to stop it

Postby Rob Lane » Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:09 pm

Much better. That should give Andy something to think about!

Cheers
Rob
User avatar
Brightblade
Posts: 1045
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: Blinding and how to stop it

Postby Brightblade » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:40 pm

OK, so me and Andy played again tonight, he used the exact same list, and my list was modified as on the previous couple of posts, much better this time round..

First 2 activations saw my Scouting Savrakonters come onto the Battlefield behind enemies Forward Advanced positioning, and both promptly despatched a Seer Drune and an Auger Drune.. No units were blinding during this battle.. yeah..

Sadly I still lost, but this was mainly through some bad dice rolls and bad luck, like my Szalamakh fleeing from the board with still 3/4 of its wounds left, and a unit of 5 Savrakars also fleeing with most of their wounds still intact, the Szalamakh from a failed Wild test from an attacking Manticore and the Savrakar from a rampaging Meat Hulk..

Otherwise a good game.. did raise a few questions though which I will post in the appropriate section...

Overall good tactics for taking out wizards early, b ut not so good on lots of big monsters...
Devlin Brightblade, Lord of Saxon Hammerwich, Slayer of Trolls, Tamer of Manticores, Petter of Flint Flang the Kill Thing from the Infernal Pits..

As you slide down the Bannister of Life, may the Splinters be kind...
User avatar
Grizzle
Posts: 413
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:36 am

Re: Blinding and how to stop it

Postby Grizzle » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:21 am

Yeah, was a very good game and I agree that those rolls were unlucky, would probably have swung the other way if they had been passed.

My only bad luck was the Augur drune blowing up on a 70 temper shrive, but I'm notorious for that and it didn't matter much in the end, either. The mantichora was down to 2 wounds, though it had a brutal run, and the Meat Hulk was down to three and set to die if I hadn't won the initiative that turn and got my chimera in.
User avatar
Rob Lane
Site Admin
Posts: 3701
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:46 pm
Location: Warsop Vale, Nottinghamshire
Contact:

Re: Blinding and how to stop it

Postby Rob Lane » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:49 am

Brightblade wrote:...the Szalamakh from a failed Wild test from an attacking Manticore...


A what test? Not sure what a Wild test is - do you mean a VALOUR TEST?

Cheers
Rob
User avatar
Brightblade
Posts: 1045
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: Blinding and how to stop it

Postby Brightblade » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:04 am

Rob Lane wrote:It's in the Rulebook, cant remember what page, it's a Wild equivalent of a Frenzied lost battle test, but essentially yes a Valour Test.


Ah you mean a Wild Attack Result Reaction. Got you. How did he fail it - isn't the Szalamakh stubborn?

Cheers
Rob
Devlin Brightblade, Lord of Saxon Hammerwich, Slayer of Trolls, Tamer of Manticores, Petter of Flint Flang the Kill Thing from the Infernal Pits..

As you slide down the Bannister of Life, may the Splinters be kind...
User avatar
Brightblade
Posts: 1045
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: Blinding and how to stop it

Postby Brightblade » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:42 am

Brightblade wrote:
Rob Lane wrote:It's in the Rulebook, cant remember what page, it's a Wild equivalent of a Frenzied lost battle test, but essentially yes a Valour Test.


Ah you mean a Wild Attack Result Reaction. Got you. How did he fail it - isn't the Szalamakh stubborn?

Cheers
Rob


Yes indeed, he is Stubborn, and I forget about that, but again with the doubling of Frenzied Blood the modified Fortitude was pretty low, quite a bit below 50 if I recall, so a 50/50 chance of failing twice..
Devlin Brightblade, Lord of Saxon Hammerwich, Slayer of Trolls, Tamer of Manticores, Petter of Flint Flang the Kill Thing from the Infernal Pits..

As you slide down the Bannister of Life, may the Splinters be kind...
User avatar
Rob Lane
Site Admin
Posts: 3701
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:46 pm
Location: Warsop Vale, Nottinghamshire
Contact:

Re: Blinding and how to stop it

Postby Rob Lane » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:09 pm

Brightblade wrote:Yes indeed, he is Stubborn, and I forget about that, but again with the doubling of Frenzied Blood the modified Fortitude was pretty low, quite a bit below 50 if I recall, so a 50/50 chance of failing twice..


I believe the probability is 25% you'll fail on that...

An easy way to remember stubborn / fearless: most 100mm monsters are at least stubborn - 120mm monsters are generally fearless...

Cheers
Rob

Return to “Darklands Tactics and Musters”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests