1.5k List Thoughts

For discussion of Brythoniaid hosts and their strategies and tactics
Jonathon Chester
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1.5k List Thoughts

Postby Jonathon Chester » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:05 pm

Been writing up some lists and have come up with the following list:

General
Teyrn Powys Arfwisg Trwm, Bwa 83 gold

Rhyfelwr Powys 10 men Penrhyfelwr, Bannerman, Herald Mainstay 110 gold
Wocor Powys 439 gold
Dynwocor Powys 1 man Battered Armour 48 gold

Commander
Prifdynwocor Powys Battered Armour 111 gold

Dynwocor Powys 5 men Battered Armour, Pendynwocor, Balchdynwocor, Sgrechdynwocor Mainstay 240 gold
Cocwocor Powys 1 man Uncommon 134 gold

Commander
Abad Powys 70 gold

Rhyfelwr Powys 10 men Penrhyfelwr, Bannerman, Herald Mainstay 110 gold
Rhyfelwr Powys 10 men Mainstay 110 gold

i have 45 gold spare and unsure what to spend it on. Not got any draconic creaturews (which is not normal for me!) but the number of shrieks backed up by shooting should hopefully help deal with the heavier units.

What are peoples thoughts?
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Crazyguy501
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Re: 1.5k List Thoughts

Postby Crazyguy501 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:18 pm

So looking at this list I know it’s one I really wouldn’t like to face up on the field. A friend of mine who plays Brytoniad tells me of the horrible things shrieking can do and it is just the worst to go up against. If your looking for points I’d maybe drop the armour upgrade for your Teyrn and purchase a second Dynwocor, the armour should still be pretty high for your Teryn plus I’d imagine he’d be sitting in the Rhyfelwr unit which will be shooting and withdrawing for days so I wouldn’t really get him into close quarters.
HughB
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Re: 1.5k List Thoughts

Postby HughB » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:30 pm

Are you set on having a Teyrn rather than an Uchelwr? Would free up a few points is all (I don't have the muster in front of me so I can't remember whether the Abad wouldn't fit under an Uchelwr or not). Also I'd agree with Crazyguy, I don't think there's a huge amount of utility in giving the general an armour upgrade. What I would suggest is giving him the upgrade to skirmish however. The rhyfelwr skirmish naturally but the Uchelwr (and I'm pretty sure the Teryn) don't naturally skirmish so that, unless you buy the upgrade, sticking the general in the rhyfelwr unit means that unit can't skirmish and so can't pull withdrawing shenanigans.

That aside, I rather like the idea of a load of shrieking units turning everything into arrow fodder for the rhyfelwr. Particualrly if you're volley shotting with the generals unit and anything else you can afford to put on hold orders for a bit.
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Jonathon Chester
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Re: 1.5k List Thoughts

Postby Jonathon Chester » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:40 pm

See I like having the extra armour on my general just to make him more survivable, and the Teryn's extra authority helps with the gaining of initiative and holding off on that final deployment.

I've never really withdrawn with my Rhyfelwr I tended to drop into shieldwall and hold stuff up lol. I will be running this list in a couple weeks to see how it performs. Will be against my friend who plays Formoraic and has a tarvax unit with character that usually tears half my army to shreds so who knows how it will go!
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HughB
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Re: 1.5k List Thoughts

Postby HughB » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:25 pm

Yeah fair point on the teryn and authority. Thought that might be what it was for. I also missed the fact that you've got a wocor in there (thought it was a cocwocor perhaps). Have you used one before and whats your experience been? They do look like a lot of fun. I'm a bit dubious about using a unit that isn't elite in shield wall. My thinking is that they're not particularly highly skilled and they're not well armoured so you'll reduce the damage coming in but they'll still take a fair bit and because of being in shieldwall, they'll not do that much damage back. Basically they're likely to lose combat and because they're not elite they'll be taking a fair few modifiers on their fortitude check so a decent chance of fleeing.

If you start as skirmishers and withdraw, you can withdraw and shoot, pull a unit out of position and keep on shooting it full of arrows. If you need to you can always swift withdraw to get further away if required. My experience is that it works well against fomoraic. Particularly frenzied fomoraic such as the tarvax you mention. They're typically obliged to chase you and have little in the way of ranged threat to get to grips with your withdrawing units. A skirmishing unit can't volley shot admittedly but one that's joined by the general can easily change its orders to be able to do so. Also a skirmishing unit is more likely to be able to get to lethal range of a unit and stay there to start getting minuses to hit and positives to parry thus making their shooting more effective.
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Jonathon Chester
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Re: 1.5k List Thoughts

Postby Jonathon Chester » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:29 pm

I have used the wocor before (bit of a while ago now) and I feel the wocor is like his smaller cousins in comparison to their Gwyfen and Draig counterparts they more reliably and with the shriek can deliver a good counter punch/combo up with other units. He is a lot frailer than the other two 120mm flying monsters but can still do a decent bit of damage.

See I like having them drop into shieldwall when the abad has done a prayer boosting them by 2D10 skill making them a much more difficult nut to crack. especially if hes the leader making the unit fearless. Won me a tournament that did, well that and the draiggoth butchering everything that he could ;)

I will need to read up on this more. I have been playing since the playtest stage and still have lots to learn!
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HughB
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Re: 1.5k List Thoughts

Postby HughB » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:30 pm

Ah of course. Knew there'd be a reason why you'd pick an Abad over an Uchelwr. Never really used them myself so its been a while since I looked closely at the Abads rules. I take it back in that case. The increase in skill is nice and will make them slightly more difficult to hit and thus damage but the real win is the fearless which turns them from a rather less than ideal shieldwall candidate to a pretty solid option. If you're facing gabrax or tarvax though I'd still suggest you withdraw. Humans are very squishy when they start meeting the business end of the +1D10 weapons of the fomoraic goats and cows.

Every days a school day mate. Thanks for the education on the role of the Abad.
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Jonathon Chester
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Re: 1.5k List Thoughts

Postby Jonathon Chester » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:19 am

No worries :) essentially all Man units within his Inspire range get one of three buffs. You have to choose either:

Ward of God - each model in the unit gets an earth dice with a 1” range.
Divine Faith - the unit gains Stubborn and Headstrong traits.
Blessed Blades - units increase the skill by 2D10

I’ve always looked at rhyfelwr as mass volley units until they need to hold the line for the big boys to come in and bring the killing blow. With my regular opponent who rolls parrys like a wizard 5 tarvax with tain is not what you want to see :lol:
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HughB
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Re: 1.5k List Thoughts

Postby HughB » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:59 pm

Turns out I've not been giving the Abad nearly enough credit. Whoops. Yeah I've played with and against tarvax and against low skill infantry, my experience is they wreck face and influence people. I suppose the great thing about rhyfelwr though is that they're such a tool box unit. They've got swords, bows and shields. They can shieldwall and they can skirmish. Lets you try a lot of different styles/tactics out. I like fire and withdraw cos you can use it to stay in the sweet spot of lethal range where admittedly you get less shots but they do more damage. It also gives you a chance to pull an organised battle line apart and away from one another. Thirty blokes volley shotting and then shieldwalling afterwards is a pretty intimidating bunker though, I can't argue with you.
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Jonathon Chester
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Re: 1.5k List Thoughts

Postby Jonathon Chester » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:36 pm

They also have the earthing dice that can be made into retribution damage too!

Its what I love about the unit and the kindred, so many different ways of playing everything you can do so much to suit your personal style of play.
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DrNO172000
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Re: 1.5k List Thoughts

Postby DrNO172000 » Sun May 20, 2018 5:00 am

An Abad, especially as a commander, is a frightening thing to see on the battlefield. Between the prayers, the fearlessness (of the unit they join too), the hate of all things, not a man, and the 3 retribution channel dice that has a huge 10" range, they are a utility powerhouse.

Here is a Brythoniad list I made for a friend getting into the game based on the Mierce and Brythoniad monstrous infantry starters he bought during the BOGO, he wanted me to make a list that would use them both.

General - Uchelwlr w/shield and bow

Command 1 - Abad
Rhyfelwr x 14

Command 2 - Prifdyndraig
Dyndraig x 3
Tawrdraig x 1

Command 3 - Wælwulf Thegn
Wælwulf x 5
Guthwulf x 1

The idea is that the Rhyfelwr with the General and Abad are up front as a screen in a skirmish. The Prifdyndraig's command makes up the second line and can charge through the skirmishers as they are 4" apart so there's no Move Through actually occurring, as the gap is big enough for up to a 100mm to fit through. If the Rhyfelwr gets in danger they can shield wall before they get charged.

Meanwhile, the Wælwulf's command is placed under Flank orders to get around the enemies rear. With an 8" pace being the slowest in that command it shouldn't be a problem once they hit the table.
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Brightblade
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Re: 1.5k List Thoughts

Postby Brightblade » Sun May 20, 2018 5:24 am

I would have thought the General would have needed a Mainstay unit of his own..
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DrNO172000
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Re: 1.5k List Thoughts

Postby DrNO172000 » Sun May 20, 2018 5:34 am

Brightblade wrote:I would have thought the General would have needed a Mainstay unit of his own..


Negative a General does not have to muster a command at all

Muster Rules 1.1.3

"The general may muster a command of his own - that he
directly commands and must join on the battlefield, thus called
the general's command - or he may muster one or more
commanders from the same realm as he, who muster a
command for the general."

The main negative here is that the Rhywelfr have to be under the same order as the Abad (at least for battle orders), this is negated though as whatever unit the General is in can effectively do any order since they are activated along with him. Having the Abad as a commander is the only way for him to join a unit since only Commanders and the General can join units.
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Brightblade
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Re: 1.5k List Thoughts

Postby Brightblade » Sun May 20, 2018 7:53 am

It's that word 'May' I keep missing that in the rule book, selective reading..

Thinks I need to revisit all my musters as have been putting a Mainstay unit in for every General when I couldve been using that Gold for something more exciting..lol
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Brightblade
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Re: 1.5k List Thoughts

Postby Brightblade » Sun May 20, 2018 7:58 am

The 14 Rhyfelwr warriors in Skirmish formation, makes one hell of a long front line, by my reckoning that front line would be 70" long, you couldn't play that on a 4 x 4 table.. ;-)

Also, what's to stop the enemy charging through the skirmisher gaps to the units behind?
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DrNO172000
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Re: 1.5k List Thoughts

Postby DrNO172000 » Sun May 20, 2018 8:30 am

Well first of all that's 1500 points so that'd be played on a 6x4.

Secondly why would you put them in one long line? You have Los through warriors in your own unit. No need to string them out in a single line or even have them all 4" apart just need them spaced where you intend to charge. Realistically you won't be able to space them all 4" apart anyway due to terrain.

What's to stop your opponent charging through? The same thing that keeps your opponent from charging you first if the skirmish line wasn't there. Good field placement and maybe a little luck with initiative. Also remember not every unit can charge whatever they want, some have to charge closest, some have to take a test not to charge closest, etc.

Beyond that if their opponent charged through into the Dyndraig and get stuck in combat they could very well have Rhyfelwr indirectly engange them in the rear.
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DrNO172000
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Re: 1.5k List Thoughts

Postby DrNO172000 » Sun May 20, 2018 4:53 pm

Course that's all theory mongering and I'm not the one that's gotta pull it off lol!
HughB
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Re: 1.5k List Thoughts

Postby HughB » Sun May 27, 2018 11:00 am

Thats an interesting use of allies to get a legal force on the table of more than one kindred. The only advice I'd give you, having played a few games with ysians and using lots of feral units, is that if you put your feral tawrdraig behind your rhyfelwr, your opponent might move his units around so that you are obliged to charge your tawrdraig right over the top of your abad as feral units are obliged to charge forward as fast as possible towards the nearest enemy unit. If your opponent is fortunate enough to have a higher authority than your Abad then it would be a pretty easy task to set the above situation up. If he doesn't it would be a bit more difficult but certainly worth it to watch your general meet a rather ignominious, messy and flat end.

Jonathan Chester plays brythoniaid a lot and is not a huge fan of the tawrdraig as its the solitary feral unit in an army that can play the ranged/counter punch game very well (feral units don't play well in this particular set up as they're obliged to try and engage as fast as possible). I'm yet to use it much myself but am quite keen to see how effective a 2D10 weapon with lots of attacks can be at tearing strips of other monsters. I also think that it may allow your dyndraig unit to be played more aggressively as a second wave to follow behind the tawrdraig rather than the sole heavy hitters themselves.

Your flanking units will allow you to play the asymmetric warfare game which will allow you to pressure your opponent at deployment but once they're on the board, you've got a lot of feral stuff that could get led around by the nose. Holding the rhyfelwr and dyndraig back as a tactical reserve in this set up rather than using them as the skirmish screen you suggest may be of worth.
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Jonathon Chester
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Re: 1.5k List Thoughts

Postby Jonathon Chester » Mon May 28, 2018 9:07 am

Thats an interesting use of allies to get a legal force on the table of more than one kindred. The only advice I'd give you, having played a few games with ysians and using lots of feral units, is that if you put your feral tawrdraig behind your rhyfelwr, your opponent might move his units around so that you are obliged to charge your tawrdraig right over the top of your abad as feral units are obliged to charge forward as fast as possible towards the nearest enemy unit. If your opponent is fortunate enough to have a higher authority than your Abad then it would be a pretty easy task to set the above situation up. If he doesn't it would be a bit more difficult but certainly worth it to watch your general meet a rather ignominious, messy and flat end.


This is a danger, I have exploited this in a game against Formoraic to drag a Fellox through my opponents Reiver archers.

HughB wrote:Jonathan Chester plays brythoniaid a lot and is not a huge fan of the tawrdraig as its the solitary feral unit in an army that can play the ranged/counter punch game very well (feral units don't play well in this particular set up as they're obliged to try and engage as fast as possible). I'm yet to use it much myself but am quite keen to see how effective a 2D10 weapon with lots of attacks can be at tearing strips of other monsters. I also think that it may allow your dyndraig unit to be played more aggressively as a second wave to follow behind the tawrdraig rather than the sole heavy hitters themselves.


I have used the Tawrdraig in around 5-10 games and found more often than not it tended to get dragged out of position and butchered as a result. However on occasion it has caused more than its cost in damage before finally being brought down. I think my main dislike for it stems from two main reasons 1) my playstyle is more suited to the shoot and scoot followed by the all in counter attack and 2) my local player base makes it a bit weaker as the skill is low compared to the main units I know it would face thus even on the counter charge it will go second.

It is a good unit if you could build a list around it to make use of the charging forward but I think Hugh said it best the Brythoniaid play the ranged/counter punch game as their strength and the Tawrdraig necessitates being the one throwing the first punch. If you could somehow combo the Shriek from a wocor unit however this suddenly becomes a very scary unit. Maybe taking Alix to make it charge again after the Shriek will make this monster get the hits in first.
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DrNO172000
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Re: 1.5k List Thoughts

Postby DrNO172000 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:10 pm

Unfortunately the guy I made this list for did not wish to get the Wocors. I tried to talk him into it but he simply didn't like the way they looked. I had not thought of the problem with Frenzied units, I don't field them much and don't face them much, I'll be sure to pass that on to him though. The main thing was creating a list for him that matched up to the two starters he bought during the bogo deal.

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