Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

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Brightblade
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Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Brightblade » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:15 pm

In a game if a Unit of Flyers perform a Circling Action and take to the skies thus being removed from the Battlefield, can a Sorcerer perform a Focus Range invocation with the Focus Range being vertical into the skies?

And if this is possible will the Circling Unit always be within the Focus Range?

My theory is that the Circling Unit would always be in range because the Circling Unit would be above the enemy units, otherwise there is no point in circling if you are only going to circle above your own kindred, and there is no height range I believe that a Circling Unit circles at, so in my theory a Focus Range Invocation cast skywards would always be in Range of a Circling Unit as you cannot say that it's not...
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Jonathon Chester » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:45 pm

I believe you can as you can shoot and use sight spells.

With regards to range no you won’t be in focus range automatically. The distance is calculated each time you target the circling unit to be their flight move plus 2D10 from the unit targeting them.
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Brightblade
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Brightblade » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:59 pm

Jonathon Chester wrote:I believe you can as you can shoot and use sight spells.

With regards to range no you won’t be in focus range automatically. The distance is calculated each time you target the circling unit to be their flight move plus 2D10 from the unit targeting them.


I cannot find any reference to the Range Focus and targeting a Circling unit as you have mentioned in the Rulebook, can you kindly direct me to where in the Rulebook this is?
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby HughB » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:37 am

Page 103
3.7.4.5.1
Circling height
circling height is calculated each time required by rolling 2D10 and adding 20. Almost right Jon. In short you could get your mages to target flying units with focus spells but they'd take a large chunk out of their health extending the range of the spells sufficiently to reach the circling unit.
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Brightblade » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:50 am

That would put a good deal of Sight Invocations and Shooting out of action too..
A lot of these only have an effective range of 30..

If a flying unit is constantly soaring, circling, diving and slashing then immediately soaring again they would be virtually undefeatable..
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Icchan » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:37 am

A Circling unit cannot continue circling if it circled in the last battle hour.
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Brightblade » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:44 am

Can a circling unit in its battle hour activation, Dive and Slash/Grab then Soar again and end the activation Circling again?
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby HughB » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:31 pm

Brightblade - basically yes (I think anyway from reading these particular rules quite avidly over the last month or two for this very reason). If a flying unit is not classed as gigantic is can soar/circle first turn then dive/slash or dive/grab and soar again as an embedded action for the rest of the game.

Gigantic units can't soar again after a slash or grab attempt.

EDIT for clarity - soaring again returns the unit to the circling state. They're not invulnerable however - brythoniaid bwas for example have an effective range of 30"

Flyers can also swoop which is a pretty gnarly flying version of trampling (for when you absolutely have to set fire to half of the board for example).
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Brightblade » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:44 pm

This is pretty powerful though don't you think.. perhaps a bit too powerful..

Basically a flying unit just has to take out a shooting unit and a sorcerer with sight invocations, which are probably the units with the lowest armour class, and then the flyers have complete impunity for the rest of the battle...

How can you compete against that?
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Jonathon Chester » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:46 pm

Brightblade wrote:This is pretty powerful though don't you think.. perhaps a bit too powerful..

Basically a flying unit just has to take out a shooting unit and a sorcerer with sight invocations, which are probably the units with the lowest armour class, and then the flyers have complete impunity for the rest of the battle...

How can you compete against that?


The unit can react though and some wizards have spells that make units immobile. It is an indirect engagement and I believe you can do a hold and... as they come in. I will read the Dive action further.
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Brightblade » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:46 pm

I take it that the Slashed unit cannot react attack as the flying unit has already soared back into the sky...
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Brightblade » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:48 pm

Jonathon Chester wrote:
Brightblade wrote:This is pretty powerful though don't you think.. perhaps a bit too powerful..

Basically a flying unit just has to take out a shooting unit and a sorcerer with sight invocations, which are probably the units with the lowest armour class, and then the flyers have complete impunity for the rest of the battle...

How can you compete against that?


The unit can react though and some wizards have spells that make units immobile. It is an indirect engagement and I believe you can do a hold and... as they come in. I will read the Dive action further.


I thought most of the immobilization invocations are Focus Range invocations hence my original question...
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby DrNO172000 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:52 pm

Brightblade wrote:I take it that the Slashed unit cannot react attack as the flying unit has already soared back into the sky...


Any unit slashed/grabbed performs a reflex attack reaction. So every time a flyer dives or swoop to attack it's at a risk.
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Brightblade » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:30 pm

Are there attack modifiers for circling units for Shooters or Invokers to hit?

Likewise any attack modifiers for circling units when they swoop Dive/Slash or Dive/Grab? And any Parry Modifiers for the attacked unit?
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Jonathon Chester » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:56 pm

-1 for both as a base, for the former potentially distance modifiers.
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Brightblade » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:01 pm

Jonathon Chester wrote:-1 for both as a base, for the former potentially distance modifiers.


Is that a -1 to hit for the Shooters and Invoker?

What about Modifiers for the attacking Circling Units, and Parry Modifiers for the Attacked Unit?
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Jonathon Chester » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:07 pm

-1 for both the unit shooting or invoking at the circling unit as well as the circling unit when it comes down to dive or slash.
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Brightblade » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:10 pm

Jonathon Chester wrote:-1 for both the unit shooting or invoking at the circling unit as well as the circling unit when it comes down to dive or slash.


I though it would have been +1 to hit for the Invoker and Shooter as their target is moving?
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Jonathon Chester » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:15 pm

sorry it is a +1 getting my +/- the wrong way round in my head
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Brightblade » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:32 pm

So just to clarify;

Shooters and Invokers +1 Modifier to Hit a circling unit

Circling Unit -1 Modifier to Hit a unit on a Dive/Slash Dive/Grab

Any Parry modifiers for the attacked unit?

Any Attack Modifiers for the Attack Reaction?
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby DrNO172000 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:40 pm

What Jon meant was it's +1 ones all around.

+1 to reflex attack reaction against diving/swooping unit

+1 to shoot/invoke against circling unit

+1 to diving unit for slash/grab

+1 to swooping unit for slash/grab/invoke/shoot
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Jonathon Chester » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:47 pm

DrNO172000 wrote:What Jon meant was it's +1 ones all around.

+1 to reflex attack reaction against diving/swooping unit

+1 to shoot/invoke against circling unit

+1 to diving unit for slash/grab

+1 to swooping unit for slash/grab/invoke/shoot


Bingo
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Brightblade » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:11 pm

Thanks Guys...

Doesn't make Flying units that invincible after all..
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby DrNO172000 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:21 pm

Brightblade wrote:Thanks Guys...

Doesn't make Flying units that invincible after all..


On top of this, a lot of flyers have lower skill so that +1 to try and hit stuff can make it tough. Besides in my opinion diving and landing can more devasting at times, especially if the landing unit is on bigger bases it can really mess a unit up. Of course, that does put them on the ground.
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby HughB » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:31 pm

Yeah diving units are very not invinsible (definitely a legitimate phrase o.O). I was convinced of this early when I saw a byzantii lion trample into a unit of gabrax. Everything was going swimmingly till the reflex attacks. The gabrax took a beating but they ate the lion. Reflex attacks with a +1D10 weapon really hurt.

Basically unless its a big nasty flyer don't put flyers into units and expect to get anything out the other side that isn't stray feathers/scales and blood. What flyers are good at doing though is killing off things with different skill levels than the units they're hiding in. So nobles. What are your thoughts on killing generals, commanders and mages? My thoughts are yes please, thank you please. Mostly.
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Jonathon Chester » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:41 pm

Until you're on the receiving end hey Hugh ;)
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby HughB » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:17 pm

Nah mate - invinsible (and preferably invisible) till the end. I can totally make druc the meathulk my general right? And never go first ever again.
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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Rob Lane » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:14 pm

Do I need to do anything here...

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Re: Circling Units and Focus Range Spells

Postby Brightblade » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:22 pm

No, got my answer..
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