Rhyfelwr and training level

For discussion of Brythoniaid hosts and their strategies and tactics
Scutarii
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed May 22, 2019 11:41 am

Rhyfelwr and training level

Postby Scutarii » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:30 pm

Rhyfelwr have the option to come as default for 11, drilled for 14 or veteran for 17 gold and gain several good looking bonuses for doing so, while also retaining Flanker, Shieldwall etc. stuff.

From the looks of it I should always want to pay the extra gold to get them as Veterans but are they worthwhile at the lower costs?

If so, why?

From what I can see against any of the bigger, scarier monsters and the like out there they are relying on their skill and shieldwall to keep them alive and not their Con or Armour plus their higher skill helps their shooting attacks.
cornishlee
Posts: 183
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:39 pm

Re: Rhyfelwr and training level

Postby cornishlee » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:52 pm

This is probably one of the oldest questions in miniatures game playing.

If you had an unlimited amount of gold/points/whatever to make up your army list then yes, the more expensive option would always be the best one.

But you don't.

Ultimately it's a decision best viewed from the point of view of the army as a whole, rather than the individual unit: I can have ten of these guys, who are OK but are pretty vulnerable as such a small unit. Or, I can have twenty of these guys, who aren't as good but if a few of them get killed, then so what? Or maybe even all of them can get killed if they've served their purpose (e.g. a single big attack or keeping the enemy away from more important troops for long enough for them to do whatever it is they have to do).
Scutarii
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed May 22, 2019 11:41 am

Re: Rhyfelwr and training level

Postby Scutarii » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:06 pm

cornishlee wrote:This is probably one of the oldest questions in miniatures game playing.

If you had an unlimited amount of gold/points/whatever to make up your army list then yes, the more expensive option would always be the best one.

But you don't.

Ultimately it's a decision best viewed from the point of view of the army as a whole, rather than the individual unit: I can have ten of these guys, who are OK but are pretty vulnerable as such a small unit. Or, I can have twenty of these guys, who aren't as good but if a few of them get killed, then so what? Or maybe even all of them can get killed if they've served their purpose (e.g. a single big attack or keeping the enemy away from more important troops for long enough for them to do whatever it is they have to do).


Sure but there are a lot of factors we can know about in advance of making the decision on where to spend those coins.

For example is a skill of 30/40/50 particularly good compared to the rest of the opponents they may face? Does getting another +10 actually improve their odds of hitting or avoiding being hit frequently enough to be worth it?

So, having a quick skim of another faction (Anglecynn) and, aside from some outliers like powerful characters or particularly low skill stuff like horses most opposition in there have skill in the 30/40/50 range. Gesith have 61 being the only non character in there to be so high.

Skimming the table on skill match ups and buying the +20 skill for 6 gold nets a +1 to the difficulty of scoring a hit only in the case of the attacker having a skill of 30 or worse. And vice versa if the Rhyfelwr were the ones attacking.

From the looks of the table and the range of stats that I'm seeing getting to the skill 40 range is a good idea defensively and offensively as it sits you in a position where the bulk of your opposition is not getting much benefit againt you and you don't suffer much against them, only the rare few particularly high skill models get anything against you there.

So...unless there are other major factors I should be considering I am thinking the +6 gold option is not worth it but taking them unupgraded is probably a waste as they're suffering all the negatives without really helping to keep the cost usefully down.
Jonathon Chester
Posts: 1232
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:09 am

Re: Rhyfelwr and training level

Postby Jonathon Chester » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:38 am

The other benefits you have to take into account are around being veteran itself such as not taking fortitude modifiers or not running away if the general dies.

Personally I always take veteran Rhyfelwr if I can afford to as Skill 50 is higher than almost every monster on the game as the majority are in the 20-40 range. Being 50 makes hitting skill 20 models much easier as well and allows you the chance of hitting elite units such as the Gesith on 5's to begin with where as being skill 40 makes that a 6. The other thing you need to take into account is skill tests are in the game and of course bumping into the 50's increases the odds on passing those.
One Hundred Minis Challenge 2018 - 127/100
One Hundred Minis Challenge 2019 - 128/100
Scutarii
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed May 22, 2019 11:41 am

Re: Rhyfelwr and training level

Postby Scutarii » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:03 am

Jonathon Chester wrote:The other benefits you have to take into account are around being veteran itself such as not taking fortitude modifiers or not running away if the general dies.

Personally I always take veteran Rhyfelwr if I can afford to as Skill 50 is higher than almost every monster on the game as the majority are in the 20-40 range. Being 50 makes hitting skill 20 models much easier as well and allows you the chance of hitting elite units such as the Gesith on 5's to begin with where as being skill 40 makes that a 6. The other thing you need to take into account is skill tests are in the game and of course bumping into the 50's increases the odds on passing those.


Another factor to consider is that, inside a factions with abundant access to Shrieker you can drop skill to cripple high skill opposition and/flatten the curve. If you’re skill 36 and they’re 61 and you both get caught in the shrierkers AoE it’s now comparing 18 to 30 so a difference of only 12 rather than 25.

I.e building a list with Shriekers as a core benefits from saving cost on lower skill as you lose less if you get caught in the AoE while your opponent loses more.
Jonathon Chester
Posts: 1232
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:09 am

Re: Rhyfelwr and training level

Postby Jonathon Chester » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:06 am

Scutarii wrote:
Jonathon Chester wrote:The other benefits you have to take into account are around being veteran itself such as not taking fortitude modifiers or not running away if the general dies.

Personally I always take veteran Rhyfelwr if I can afford to as Skill 50 is higher than almost every monster on the game as the majority are in the 20-40 range. Being 50 makes hitting skill 20 models much easier as well and allows you the chance of hitting elite units such as the Gesith on 5's to begin with where as being skill 40 makes that a 6. The other thing you need to take into account is skill tests are in the game and of course bumping into the 50's increases the odds on passing those.


Another factor to consider is that, inside a factions with abundant access to Shrieker you can drop skill to cripple high skill opposition and/flatten the curve. If you’re skill 36 and they’re 61 and you both get caught in the shrierkers AoE it’s now comparing 18 to 30 so a difference of only 12 rather than 25.

I.e building a list with Shriekers as a core benefits from saving cost on lower skill as you lose less if you get caught in the AoE while your opponent loses more.


That is of course assuming you go powys with your list. I mostly play with veteran for the moral mechanic benefits the skill is an added bonus to me.
One Hundred Minis Challenge 2018 - 127/100
One Hundred Minis Challenge 2019 - 128/100
Tiern Gwitreg
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:28 am

Re: Rhyfelwr and training level

Postby Tiern Gwitreg » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:55 pm

I'd do the same as Jonathon. Upgrading a unit from trained/drilled to veteran brings way too much benefits in terms of morals and army cohesion to be ignored. A big unit of these dudes shieldwalling will be a pain in the ass for your adversary to remove, and while the cost ramps up it's worth it in most cases... And for added benefits you can (should ? must ?) have a priest lead them to make them fearless and have their skill skyrocket !

While we're at it, do you guys think it is worth it to add Sathàch as a sellsword and turn the unit elite ?

Return to “Brythoniaid”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests