Help me see the value of a giant

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cornishlee
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Help me see the value of a giant

Postby cornishlee » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:57 am

In the 2nd ed. musters, a giant is now 450 gold. Vastly less than it used to be and, so, something that could be included in more lists.

One of my take-aways from Coffa Tree, at the weekend, was that I need a big beast. One (or even two, as it was then, borrowing one off Jon) 80mm monsters just didn't cut it. A couple of people here already know that I'm seriously looking at picking up a giant.

Here's the thing, though, giants may have got cheaper, but so has everything else. I'd kind of talked myself into getting a giant by yesterday but the more I look at it, the less I'm seeing the value. At 450 gold, it's still expensive.

A moroghuruc is on the same size base and has the same number of attack dice, causing the same number of wounds. M&W, C&A and absorb dice are all slightly less - but still good, and has 11 fewer wounds. The giant is clearly better. But is it 188 gold better? I could nearly have two moroghurucs (total = 524) for the cost of one giant. Alternatively, I could have one moroghuruc and a unit of three vicious oghurucs (total = 504 gold). Both options are around 10% more gold than a giant, which isn't a huge difference.

Last night, I borrowed Scott's Oak Beast and Taoiseach and this is also another option. I plan on getting into Erainn if and when they get chariots anyway (so I can recreate the Tain), so this would also give me some flexibility in the future. At 346 gold (370 including the Taoieseach) it's also on the same size base as the giant and moroghuruc but has a higher skill than either of them, a higher C&A than either of them (as well as being tough, on top of that) and more attack dice, which cause more wounds.

So, all of these options are expensive but I'm struggling to see why the giant is so much more expensive than the other two. Thoughts?
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Brightblade
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Re: Help me see the value of a giant

Postby Brightblade » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:08 am

cornishlee wrote:In the 2nd ed. musters, a giant is now 450 gold. Vastly less than it used to be and, so, something that could be included in more lists.

One of my take-aways from Coffa Tree, at the weekend, was that I need a big beast. One (or even two, as it was then, borrowing one off Jon) 80mm monsters just didn't cut it. A couple of people here already know that I'm seriously looking at picking up a giant.

Here's the thing, though, giants may have got cheaper, but so has everything else. I'd kind of talked myself into getting a giant by yesterday but the more I look at it, the less I'm seeing the value. At 450 gold, it's still expensive.

A moroghuruc is on the same size base and has the same number of attack dice, causing the same number of wounds. M&W, C&A and absorb dice are all slightly less - but still good, and has 11 fewer wounds. The giant is clearly better. But is it 188 gold better? I could nearly have two moroghurucs (total = 524) for the cost of one giant. Alternatively, I could have one moroghuruc and a unit of three vicious oghurucs (total = 504 gold). Both options are around 10% more gold than a giant, which isn't a huge difference.

Last night, I borrowed Scott's Oak Beast and Taoiseach and this is also another option. I plan on getting into Erainn if and when they get chariots anyway (so I can recreate the Tain), so this would also give me some flexibility in the future. At 346 gold (370 including the Taoieseach) it's also on the same size base as the giant and moroghuruc but has a higher skill than either of them, a higher C&A than either of them (as well as being tough, on top of that) and more attack dice, which cause more wounds.

So, all of these options are expensive but I'm struggling to see why the giant is so much more expensive than the other two. Thoughts?


Some very good points made their Lee, and in last nights game the Oak Beast was still standing at the end after defeating a unit of Corrupters and Abhorrents I doubt the Giant would have been...
Devlin Brightblade, Lord of Saxon Hammerwich, Slayer of Trolls, Tamer of Manticores, Petter of Flint Flang the Kill Thing from the Infernal Pits..

As you slide down the Bannister of Life, may the Splinters be kind...
Jonathon Chester
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Re: Help me see the value of a giant

Postby Jonathon Chester » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:11 am

Don’t look at base size look at its Mass. given the giant can grab with its sword he can grab more things.

Look at my Draiggoch, I came 2nd with a model that is more expensive than the giant. Often it’s how you use the model than its face value stats. Additionally, rule of cool.
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Brightblade
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Re: Help me see the value of a giant

Postby Brightblade » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:15 am

The Oak Beast can also Grab with both hands, is higher Skill and has the Tough Trait also.. It's also almost 100 Gold less to field than the Giant..
Devlin Brightblade, Lord of Saxon Hammerwich, Slayer of Trolls, Tamer of Manticores, Petter of Flint Flang the Kill Thing from the Infernal Pits..

As you slide down the Bannister of Life, may the Splinters be kind...
Jonathon Chester
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Re: Help me see the value of a giant

Postby Jonathon Chester » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:15 am

Brightblade wrote:The Oak Beast can also Grab with both hands, is higher Skill and has the Tough Trait also.. It's also almost 100 Gold less to field than the Giant..


Look at the weapon rules for the Giant though...
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Jonathon Chester
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Re: Help me see the value of a giant

Postby Jonathon Chester » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:20 am

I'm confident it has opportunities to throw out more damage than the oak beast. lower skill yes but far less vulnerable to magic overall, powers your wizards up and mostly higher stats.

Not a cheap model to field but just requires more finesse
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Brightblade
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Re: Help me see the value of a giant

Postby Brightblade » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:22 am

Jonathon Chester wrote:
Brightblade wrote:The Oak Beast can also Grab with both hands, is higher Skill and has the Tough Trait also.. It's also almost 100 Gold less to field than the Giant..


Look at the weapon rules for the Giant though...


Ah.. Yes, I see the difference, having the extra Absorb Dice and increased Range is a big help and having Viscious Damage and Stomp too..

Yes, based on that it is worth the extra Gold..
Devlin Brightblade, Lord of Saxon Hammerwich, Slayer of Trolls, Tamer of Manticores, Petter of Flint Flang the Kill Thing from the Infernal Pits..

As you slide down the Bannister of Life, may the Splinters be kind...
cornishlee
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Re: Help me see the value of a giant

Postby cornishlee » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:28 am

Thanks guys. The absorb dice range is definitely a factor - but as already noted, it's only one more die and two more inches than a moroghuruc. They also both have exactly the same weapon rules. Yes, its mass is higher (14) but the moroghurruc's mass is 12, which is already higher than almost everything else (equal to the oak beast).
Jonathon Chester
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Re: Help me see the value of a giant

Postby Jonathon Chester » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:29 am

Lee, for what I can advise you have two options.

1. Cool massive single model in a giant which will not be necessarily consistent in what it does across games because he is one model and can be effected by more variables of what your opponent fields.

2. Multiple smaller models which have less punch individually but you have redundancy if one is killed or pinned down.

All comes down to what you'd rather have to use, which the correct answer is both lol
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Jonathon Chester
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Re: Help me see the value of a giant

Postby Jonathon Chester » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:30 am

cornishlee wrote:Thanks guys. The absorb dice range is definitely a factor - but as already noted, it's only one more die and two more inches than a moroghuruc. They also both have exactly the same weapon rules. Yes, its mass is higher (14) but the moroghurruc's mass is 12, which is already higher than almost everything else (equal to the oak beast).


The mass is very important when it comes to mighty strike though. There are many things equal or bigger than a moroghuruc. However, there is little that matches the giant
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Brightblade
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Re: Help me see the value of a giant

Postby Brightblade » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:32 am

That Giant could knock out the Earth Beast, and that's saying something...
Devlin Brightblade, Lord of Saxon Hammerwich, Slayer of Trolls, Tamer of Manticores, Petter of Flint Flang the Kill Thing from the Infernal Pits..

As you slide down the Bannister of Life, may the Splinters be kind...
cornishlee
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Re: Help me see the value of a giant

Postby cornishlee » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:15 pm

Thanks, guys. I've stuck with the original plan and ordered my giant. I think that gives me the 1,500 Albainn army I want, right now. The moroghuruc and vicious oghuruc unit (or goghu unit if it's available by then) will be the next thing, for my 2,000 army.
Jonathon Chester
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Re: Help me see the value of a giant

Postby Jonathon Chester » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:26 pm

Good man
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