Atalantes: Athority test for the Force action

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antoine
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Atalantes: Athority test for the Force action

Postby antoine » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:02 pm

I planned something for next game and need to be sure:
If a strategos joins a unit of messokolossos,
then a Tekhnomantis Force this joined unit to Charge, for example,
the Force test is passed on the strategos authority, right? (even if he is involuntarily left in the proecess)
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Brightblade
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Re: Atalantes: Athority test for the Force action

Postby Brightblade » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:27 am

antoine wrote:I planned something for next game and need to be sure:
If a strategos joins a unit of messokolossos,
then a Tekhnomantis Force this joined unit to Charge, for example,
the Force test is passed on the strategos authority, right? (even if he is involuntarily left in the proecess)


The test is on the Forced units Authority, and as these have all been lowered now makes it harder to successfully roll.

If you read the information on the Strategos Muster Profile for the Force you will see that if it is failed then the Forced Unit loses Authority which then makes the next Force Test even harder..
Devlin Brightblade, Lord of Saxon Hammerwich, Slayer of Trolls, Tamer of Manticores, Petter of Flint Flang the Kill Thing from the Infernal Pits..

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Icchan
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Re: Atalantes: Athority test for the Force action

Postby Icchan » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:39 am

A Strategos that has Joined the Mesokolossos is technically the same unit, so would have higher Authority.
But I'm a bit hazy on how authorities work with effects like that. For normal Authority tests you would use the Strategos' Auth.
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Brightblade
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Re: Atalantes: Athority test for the Force action

Postby Brightblade » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:59 am

Icchan wrote:A Strategos that has Joined the Mesokolossos is technically the same unit, so would have higher Authority.
But I'm a bit hazy on how authorities work with effects like that. For normal Authority tests you would use the Strategos' Auth.


Problem here though is that he is not forcing himself, he may be part of the unit, but he is not a Construct, and this is aimed at Construct units.
Devlin Brightblade, Lord of Saxon Hammerwich, Slayer of Trolls, Tamer of Manticores, Petter of Flint Flang the Kill Thing from the Infernal Pits..

As you slide down the Bannister of Life, may the Splinters be kind...
Crazyguy501
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Re: Atalantes: Athority test for the Force action

Postby Crazyguy501 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:50 am

I’m pretty sure they could use the Strategos Authority as he is presumably the general. Units can use the generals fortitude and authority within command range (authority divided by 10). The same is true for commanders, but they’d have to be in that commanders command to do so. It’s on page 55-56, starting at 2.7.2.3.1

Thanks

James
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Brightblade
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Re: Atalantes: Athority test for the Force action

Postby Brightblade » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:56 am

Crazyguy501 wrote:I’m pretty sure they could use the Strategos Authority as he is presumably the general. Units can use the generals fortitude and authority within command range (authority divided by 10). The same is true for commanders, but they’d have to be in that commanders command to do so. It’s on page 55-56, starting at 2.7.2.3.1

Thanks

James


The blurb from the Sunring Rules on the Technomantis says otherwise..

Control Range: the sunring's control range, used to control automata, is 20”.
Force Automata: While the Tekhnomántis wears the sunring, once per hour he may perform a Force action (which is a command action) upon any automaton unit within the sunring's control range


According to this it must be used on an Automaton unit, the Strategos whilst part of the unit with the Automaton's is not an Automaton so stands to reason that he couldn't use his Authority..

Profiles take Precedence over Rulebook..
Devlin Brightblade, Lord of Saxon Hammerwich, Slayer of Trolls, Tamer of Manticores, Petter of Flint Flang the Kill Thing from the Infernal Pits..

As you slide down the Bannister of Life, may the Splinters be kind...
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Icchan
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Re: Atalantes: Athority test for the Force action

Postby Icchan » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:57 am

Found this line in the Force Automata ability:
"Non automaton warriors within the unit cannot be Forced and must be involuntarily Left."
So looks like that even attempting to use the Force will unjoin the strategos from the mesokolossos, so they'd be two different units. So the question is as Crazyguy points out, do they use their commander's Auth if they're in range? The Force Automata ability simply calls on them to perform an AUTHORITY TEST.
Page 55 of the rulebook, 2.7.2.3.1:
"Any friendly unit withing the general's command range may use it's general's AUTHORITY for any AUTHORITY TEST it must take"
Same goes for commanders.
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Re: Atalantes: Athority test for the Force action

Postby Brightblade » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:14 pm

Icchan wrote:Found this line in the Force Automata ability:
"Non automaton warriors within the unit cannot be Forced and must be involuntarily Left."
So looks like that even attempting to use the Force will unjoin the strategos from the mesokolossos, so they'd be two different units. So the question is as Crazyguy points out, do they use their commander's Auth if they're in range? The Force Automata ability simply calls on them to perform an AUTHORITY TEST.
Page 55 of the rulebook, 2.7.2.3.1:
"Any friendly unit withing the general's command range may use it's general's AUTHORITY for any AUTHORITY TEST it must take"
Same goes for commanders.


If the FORCE TEST is passed, the Forced
automaton unit immediately suffers D5 damage and may perform any one of the following Forced actions immediately and regardless of its current vigour state or orders: Walk, Run, Charge or Attack. Nonautomaton
warriors within the unit cannot be Forced and must be involuntarily Left. If the FORCE TEST is failed, the Forced automaton does not perform a Forced action, but suffers D10 damage and deducts
2D10 from its AUTHORITY attribute.


Who takes the damage on a successful Test, and who takes the Authority hit if it Fails...

Surely you cant Roll on the Strategos Authrority and the Automatons take the Damage or the Authority Hit, it must be the unit whose Authority is being used, if so then the Strategos is at risk of being killed on Successful Forcing..
Devlin Brightblade, Lord of Saxon Hammerwich, Slayer of Trolls, Tamer of Manticores, Petter of Flint Flang the Kill Thing from the Infernal Pits..

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Icchan
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Re: Atalantes: Athority test for the Force action

Postby Icchan » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:46 pm

The Strategos (or any commander) performs the test, but the Forced Automaton unit takes the damage.
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Re: Atalantes: Athority test for the Force action

Postby Icchan » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:48 pm

Nevermind, Rob just changed it! lol
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Re: Atalantes: Athority test for the Force action

Postby Rob Lane » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:50 pm

Yeah, I could see it was becoming an issue.

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Rob
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Icchan
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Re: Atalantes: Athority test for the Force action

Postby Icchan » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:51 pm

Well, now the issue is can the Tekhnomantis use the Strategos' AUTH if it's in range?

EDIT: I quite like that the test is performed with Tekhnomantis now, it's still risky but initially a 66% chance of succeeding is good enough that I'm willing to take the risk.
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Re: Atalantes: Athority test for the Force action

Postby Rob Lane » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:15 pm

Icchan wrote:Well, now the issue is can the Tekhnomantis use the Strategos' AUTH if it's in range?

EDIT: I quite like that the test is performed with Tekhnomantis now, it's still risky but initially a 66% chance of succeeding is good enough that I'm willing to take the risk.


No, I've made sure it's only his AUTHORITY.

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Rob
antoine
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Re: Atalantes: Athority test for the Force action

Postby antoine » Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:51 pm

what changed and where is said change ?
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Re: Atalantes: Athority test for the Force action

Postby Rob Lane » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:00 am

It's 2nd edition - so not yet publicly available. Scott was naughty for raising it here...

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Rob
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Brightblade
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Re: Atalantes: Athority test for the Force action

Postby Brightblade » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:15 am

Rob Lane wrote:It's 2nd edition - so not yet publicly available. Scott was naughty for raising it here...

Cheers
Rob



Excuse me... I never raised anything... But yes I am naughty but not for this...
Devlin Brightblade, Lord of Saxon Hammerwich, Slayer of Trolls, Tamer of Manticores, Petter of Flint Flang the Kill Thing from the Infernal Pits..

As you slide down the Bannister of Life, may the Splinters be kind...

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