Attack move as a reaction.

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Grizzle
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Attack move as a reaction.

Postby Grizzle » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:24 pm

I'm posting this just as a clarification that I've been playing this right.

The subsection of the 6.20 attack action 6.20.2.1.1 states that an attacked unit can do attack move, shoot or invoke as a reaction rather than just attack. I had a game recently where my brutes had performed a run action to get close to the nearest enemy unit it could see, which was a unit of Norse trolls. This is a vigorous action, so they are now alert.

The trolls then activate and indirect engage my brutes meaning I cannot counter-engage. After they have attacked it is the brutes turn, but I notice that the angle of the two units means that only three of my brutes have made it into attack range. When I declared my reaction (are attack ones in a separate sequence to when I declare my engaged reaction? I may have misunderstood here) could I declare an attack move and move the unengaged brutes into the trolls to get more attacks?

Is this correct? Also if another enemy unit were to engage them after this, would they now be weary and so would they only be able to make reflex attack reactions? So no more moves?
Or is there a series of compulsive reactions that frenzied and feral would require them to perform instead (besides a counter-engage)?

Thanks in advance for any replies.
Grizzle
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Re: Attack move as a reaction.

Postby Grizzle » Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:31 pm

No need to answer this now, had a good read and I think I understand it now per the attack action sequence and the attack move sequences for beset (attacked) warriors on page 190-1).

Plus it's compulsive for the feral units anyhow.

In other words: found what I was looking for.
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Rob Lane
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Re: Attack move as a reaction.

Postby Rob Lane » Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:38 pm

Fairy nuff...

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Rob
Grizzle
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Re: Attack move as a reaction.

Postby Grizzle » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:27 am

Rob Lane wrote:Fairy nuff...

Cheers
Rob


Actually Rob, upon further reading I do have a couple of questions regarding attack reactions in general.

Firstly, I gather that a reflex attack reaction and using an attack as a reaction are two different, distinct things?

So in a recent game with Anglecynn vs Ysians, I had a meat hulk engaged with a large unit of Werwulfs & a Werwulf character (cant remember if it was Thegn or Forthegn) & after the first hour had passed, they were still engaged with each other.

In the second hour the Anglecynn won the initiative & decided to activate the Werwulfs (as an aside I mistakenly thought he had to do feral first even in combat, so he had some guthwulfs that went first in a different engagement).

Now, after the werwulfs declared their attacks I declared an attack reaction and chose to stomp. Is this correct? Is it also correct that once I've done that, my hulk becomes weary and then can only do reflex attack reactions (and thus only use one of his combat weapons, in this case: his clubs)?

The thegn/forthegn was in his blind arc, if the thegn activates and attacks my weary hulk in the back, he would get easy strikes, but could I reflex attack back at him, turning to face him but also exposing my blind arc to some angry werwulfs?

How much can one reflex attack, particularly if engaged by multiple enemy units? It says effortless so I would assume I can just keep doing it, provided the unit was still alive at that point.

PS: As an aside, when I've done stomping and failed a gleeful stomping test, would I need to reroll the D10 for the extra attacks on my stomp weapon or would it be the same result as the first time? Also can I keep stomping after that second gleeful stomp or is it just the first stomp and then one more gleeful one?

I did do a search but didn't find anything, though I might have missed it somewhere. From what I can see it seems to state that it is just the once more and then the gleeful stomp is basically for stopping an enemy from attacking back after due to confusion.
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Rob Lane
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Re: Attack move as a reaction.

Postby Rob Lane » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:16 am

Grizzle wrote:Actually Rob, upon further reading I do have a couple of questions regarding attack reactions in general.

Firstly, I gather that a reflex attack reaction and using an attack as a reaction are two different, distinct things?


Correct.

Grizzle wrote:So in a recent game with Anglecynn vs Ysians, I had a meat hulk engaged with a large unit of Werwulfs & a Werwulf character (cant remember if it was Thegn or Forthegn) & after the first hour had passed, they were still engaged with each other.

In the second hour the Anglecynn won the initiative & decided to activate the Werwulfs (as an aside I mistakenly thought he had to do feral first even in combat, so he had some guthwulfs that went first in a different engagement).

Now, after the werwulfs declared their attacks I declared an attack reaction and chose to stomp. Is this correct?


Yes, that's fine.

Grizzle wrote:Is it also correct that once I've done that, my hulk becomes weary and then can only do reflex attack reactions (and thus only use one of his combat weapons, in this case: his clubs)?


No. Frenzied units do not become weary after a vigorous action - they are alert; see p124, "Frenzied units are always alert".

Grizzle wrote:The thegn/forthegn was in his blind arc, if the thegn activates and attacks my weary hulk in the back, he would get easy strikes, but could I reflex attack back at him, turning to face him but also exposing my blind arc to some angry werwulfs?


Well he's not weary; he's alert, but in terms of "turning around", that's fine, but yes, you'd expose your arse. There'd be no reflex attack reactions by the Werwulfas, as the hulk hasn't moved out of their attack range, however. You're just making sure you get blind attacked.

A Stomp action is the same as any Attack action, in reality, it's simply a form of Attacking. So any warrior (regardless of whether they're frenzied or not) can perform Attack reactions with their other combat weapons before or after the Stomp action, if they have any. Think of the Stomp action as just a way of using one weapon. Obviously if you fail your GLEE TEST that's all you can do, but that's a special case.

Grizzle wrote:How much can one reflex attack, particularly if engaged by multiple enemy units? It says effortless so I would assume I can just keep doing it, provided the unit was still alive at that point.


I think you're missing the point of the Reflex Attack reaction. It's basically designed to ensure warriors don't move out of your attack range. It's only used in those situations, pretty much.

Grizzle wrote:PS: As an aside, when I've done stomping and failed a gleeful stomping test, would I need to reroll the D10 for the extra attacks on my stomp weapon or would it be the same result as the first time?


No, it's a new Stomp Attack action, so you must do it all over again.

Grizzle wrote:Also can I keep stomping after that second gleeful stomp or is it just the first stomp and then one more gleeful one?


A Stomp action, and then a Gleeful Stomp action, and then all your combat weapons are used up. It does state this on p215...

Grizzle wrote:I did do a search but didn't find anything, though I might have missed it somewhere. From what I can see it seems to state that it is just the once more and then the gleeful stomp is basically for stopping an enemy from attacking back after due to confusion.


See p215, Failed Glee Test.

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Rob
Grizzle
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Re: Attack move as a reaction.

Postby Grizzle » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:39 am

OK, thanks Rob, that's cleared up some of my misinterpretations/confusions.

Not becoming wearied (how did I miss that one as a Ysian player?) along with counter-engaging, frenzied units suddenly became terrifying.
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Re: Attack move as a reaction.

Postby Rob Lane » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:09 am

Grizzle wrote:OK, thanks Rob, that's cleared up some of my misinterpretations/confusions.

Not becoming wearied (how did I miss that one as a Ysian player?) along with counter-engaging, frenzied units suddenly became terrifying.


It took a while for them to get there (in playtesting terms) but I'm very happy with how frenzied units work. They're pretty uncontrollable, but in the right hands they can be lethal.

Cheers
Rob
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Rob Lane
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Re: Attack move as a reaction.

Postby Rob Lane » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:10 am

Grizzle wrote:OK, thanks Rob, that's cleared up some of my misinterpretations/confusions.

Not becoming wearied (how did I miss that one as a Ysian player?) along with counter-engaging, frenzied units suddenly became terrifying.


It took a while for them to get there (in playtesting terms) but I'm very happy with how frenzied units work. They're pretty uncontrollable, but in the right hands they can be lethal!

Cheers
Rob
Grizzle
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Re: Attack move as a reaction.

Postby Grizzle » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:33 am

Rob Lane wrote:
Grizzle wrote:OK, thanks Rob, that's cleared up some of my misinterpretations/confusions.

Not becoming wearied (how did I miss that one as a Ysian player?) along with counter-engaging, frenzied units suddenly became terrifying.


It took a while for them to get there (in playtesting terms) but I'm very happy with how frenzied units work. They're pretty uncontrollable, but in the right hands they can be lethal!

Cheers
Rob


So far from my experiences with frenzied units, I've been trying out tactics whereby I try to take advantage of high authority and positioning, so using War/Battle Drunes and/or Death Melusines (as opposed to the '1 unit has 0 authority' & compel of Death Brutes/Abhorrents) to put my monsters and monstrous infantry in (not forgetting the mainstay requirement where applicable & authority of course) and trying to 'out place' my opponent's units.

Although this does mean I often get less monstrous units in the muster, it does allow me more control over my command placements during the deployment step and means I can get a decent look at where some of the opposing commands are being dropped. Basically my objective is to minimise obstacles (both terrain and friendly units) in the way of my angry boys, so they can get to grips with stuff cleanly & brutally.
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Brightblade
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Re: Attack move as a reaction.

Postby Brightblade » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:48 am

That has answered a few questions, but I would imagine that you need to keep Frenzied Units seperate from friendly none Frenzied units unless they stand the risk of attacking both friend and enemy..

I was very impressed with my Freawulf's five 40mm characters taking down your 100mm Abhorrant in two Battle hours and only losing one of them number, think that was more luck of the Dice rolls rather than the Frea's themselves...

And your ridiculously lucky rolls against my Wealwulfs when they attacked the Brutes on their Blind Arc... Thinking about that now, I think your Parry rolls should have been Difficult Parrys as my Wulfs were attacking your Blind Arc, not that it would have made too much difference given all the 8's and 9's you rolled...lol
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Grizzle
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Re: Attack move as a reaction.

Postby Grizzle » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:26 pm

Brightblade wrote:That has answered a few questions, but I would imagine that you need to keep Frenzied Units seperate from friendly none Frenzied units unless they stand the risk of attacking both friend and enemy..

I was very impressed with my Freawulf's five 40mm characters taking down your 100mm Abhorrant in two Battle hours and only losing one of them number, think that was more luck of the Dice rolls rather than the Frea's themselves...

And your ridiculously lucky rolls against my Wealwulfs when they attacked the Brutes on their Blind Arc... Thinking about that now, I think your Parry rolls should have been Difficult Parrys as my Wulfs were attacking your Blind Arc, not that it would have made too much difference given all the 8's and 9's you rolled...lol


Good point about the difficult parries, completely forgot about that.

This also makes my stomping even nastier, if I can do more, like grab for example. There was a good spread of dice rolls, even if mine were ridiculously good at the start. :o

And the freawulfs outdid themselves. Made me think of a certain cinematic archetype where the pack animals down something much bigger.

Really entertaining game. :D

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