Some Beginner Questions

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HeliosPattern
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:46 am

Some Beginner Questions

Postby HeliosPattern » Sat Apr 02, 2022 2:40 pm

Hello there! :)

Me and a friend collected and painted MM-Stuff for a couple of years and even enjoyed a few small 1st edition games. To be honest- we never got truly deep into the game beside having some easy battles, first of all we were there for the miniatures. We often chatted about how big the rulebook is and how much flexibility it offers- but we were to lazy and our battles (Infernii vs Anglecynn) always ended in big monsters and monsterous infantry beeing stuck into each other, rolling dice for rounds until someone managed to kill the other.

Now that the second edition came out we want to give it another and more serious try, with different armies, but we don't have the rulebook yet.

But- of course, thanks to the free pdfs, a few glances could already be taken.

As I just invested in some beautiful norse infantry, I already noticed some things that made me wonder. Rob and Scot already answered some questions on FB, but now I try to get a more detailed answer :)

1.) What does the unit szizes bring with them?
Minimum unit szize, medium unit szize (some bonus from then?) and then maximum unit szize?

2.) Is it problematic to put a character on a slightly bigger base, just fore rule of cool purposes?

3.) Guess it's not problematic to use any model I want for a generic warlord option that fits, rather than following the model advices between the entry (?, otherwise it could occur I have the same model multiple times with multiple profiles)

4.) Weapon options?
Some units have "switch weapons" trait and so can swap say between a sword and a spear from round to round. Okay. But some units, like the Skipari Warlord of the Norse, have the option: Axe, Sword (Replacement: Axe) and Sword+Axe (Replacement: Axe). Is there any reason, beside balance reasons, why on earth I couldn't drop the Axe (if I chose Sword+Axe kombo) to field the Sword two-handed? Why do have some units the potential to switch weapons and some not, even if it was easily possible in reallife? Just balance?

5.) Weapon Balance?
If you have a Sword and say 10 attacks if swung with one end, you often have 7 Attacks or so if you field it 2 handed. After doing some math I found out fielding weapons two handed usually means doing twice the damage in the end, just for letting 10 armour for a shield go. Do I miss something? The defensive decrease and loss of a few attacks does clearly not seem to outweight the final damage result.

6.) Norse Filungi
Rob said the Filungi decreases the point costs of gear to a maximum of 0 (so you don't get points back if you drop under zero). But the text states: "Master of Arms: If a Filungi is mustered in a host, within the host's command, the silver cost of all Add or Replace equipment options (including artefacts) - even if they are already negative - is reduced by 4 per piece of equipment for warlords, 2 per piece of equipment for warchiefs and 1 per piece of equipment for any other warrior class to a minimum of zero." I could understand if the text would say: "Master of Arms: If a Filungi is mustered in a host, within the host's command, the silver cost of all Add or Replace equipment options (including artefacts) is reduced by 4 per piece of equipment for warlords, 2 per piece of equipment for warchiefs and 1 per piece of equipment for any other warrior class to a maximum of zero points per equipment option." Or am I totally wrong in my understanding, otherwise I do not understand what "even if they are already negative" from the original text means.

7.) Starter bundle
The norse starter bundle picture says 160€ pound Resin host, the text says 130 pound resin host. Which one is correct?


Thanks in advance :)
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Rob Lane
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Re: Some Beginner Questions

Postby Rob Lane » Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:29 pm

HeliosPattern wrote:Hello there! :)

Me and a friend collected and painted MM-Stuff for a couple of years and even enjoyed a few small 1st edition games. To be honest- we never got truly deep into the game beside having some easy battles, first of all we were there for the miniatures. We often chatted about how big the rulebook is and how much flexibility it offers- but we were to lazy and our battles (Infernii vs Anglecynn) always ended in big monsters and monsterous infantry beeing stuck into each other, rolling dice for rounds until someone managed to kill the other.

Now that the second edition came out we want to give it another and more serious try, with different armies, but we don't have the rulebook yet.

But- of course, thanks to the free pdfs, a few glances could already be taken.


Good news, I'm glad you've taken the plunge!

HeliosPattern wrote:As I just invested in some beautiful norse infantry, I already noticed some things that made me wonder. Rob and Scot already answered some questions on FB, but now I try to get a more detailed answer :)

1.) What does the unit szizes bring with them?
Minimum unit szize, medium unit szize (some bonus from then?) and then maximum unit szize?


The minimum size of a unit is what it says, really - that's the minimum amount of warriors of that type you can muster in a unit.

Medium size (by which I take it you mean effective) is a requirement for a sworn unit; i.e., to take a sworn unit, you must take at least the amount of warriors mentioned as their effective size. Also, when mustering, pledged units and sworn units gain free command warriors (champion, banner bearer, herald) if they are at effective size or greater.

Maximum size is the maximum amount of warriors you can have in that unit.

HeliosPattern wrote:2.) Is it problematic to put a character on a slightly bigger base, just fore rule of cool purposes?


There's no specific rule against this, but it will mean more enemy warriors will be able to hurt him as there'd be more of them around his base ;o)

HeliosPattern wrote:3.) Guess it's not problematic to use any model I want for a generic warlord option that fits, rather than following the model advices between the entry (?, otherwise it could occur I have the same model multiple times with multiple profiles)


Sure, that's not a problem - it's entirely up to you.

HeliosPattern wrote:4.) Weapon options?
Some units have "switch weapons" trait and so can swap say between a sword and a spear from round to round. Okay. But some units, like the Skipari Warlord of the Norse, have the option: Axe, Sword (Replacement: Axe) and Sword+Axe (Replacement: Axe). Is there any reason, beside balance reasons, why on earth I couldn't drop the Axe (if I chose Sword+Axe kombo) to field the Sword two-handed? Why do have some units the potential to switch weapons and some not, even if it was easily possible in reallife? Just balance?


There's three basic reasons for all the weapon options on each profile; the miniatures that represent the warriors in question, the lore of the kindred and basic balance, although reasons 1 and 2 are the most important. If there's not a miniature available that shows a Norse guy with a double-handed sword, he can't have that.

HeliosPattern wrote:5.) Weapon Balance?
If you have a Sword and say 10 attacks if swung with one end, you often have 7 Attacks or so if you field it 2 handed. After doing some math I found out fielding weapons two handed usually means doing twice the damage in the end, just for letting 10 armour for a shield go. Do I miss something? The defensive decrease and loss of a few attacks does clearly not seem to outweight the final damage result.


You've not missed anything, but what I would say is, don't fall prey too much to "theorylands" - i.e., thinking maths is all that matters! It is often the case that it just doesn't work out the way you expect it - for example, you may well need that extra 10 C+A when facing a particular enemy that's got a nasty weapon. It's entirely up to you of course, muster your host how you see fit!

HeliosPattern wrote:6.) Norse Filungi
Rob said the Filungi decreases the point costs of gear to a maximum of 0 (so you don't get points back if you drop under zero). But the text states: "Master of Arms: If a Filungi is mustered in a host, within the host's command, the silver cost of all Add or Replace equipment options (including artefacts) - even if they are already negative - is reduced by 4 per piece of equipment for warlords, 2 per piece of equipment for warchiefs and 1 per piece of equipment for any other warrior class to a minimum of zero." I could understand if the text would say: "Master of Arms: If a Filungi is mustered in a host, within the host's command, the silver cost of all Add or Replace equipment options (including artefacts) is reduced by 4 per piece of equipment for warlords, 2 per piece of equipment for warchiefs and 1 per piece of equipment for any other warrior class to a maximum of zero points per equipment option." Or am I totally wrong in my understanding, otherwise I do not understand what "even if they are already negative" from the original text means.


Some weapon options have a negative value; for example, if you're replacing a double-handed sword with a dagger, the dagger is cheaper than the sword so there's a cost decrease for that option.

I do think you're overthinking this a little - all you need to remember is that the filungi reduces option costs as stated to a minimum of 0. Therefore, the filungi wouldn't have any effect on replacing the sword with the dagger in the example above.

HeliosPattern wrote:7.) Starter bundle
The norse starter bundle picture says 160€ pound Resin host, the text says 130 pound resin host. Which one is correct?
Thanks in advance :)


£160 is correct - the £130 is for a metal host! Apologies, I'll get that error fixed.

Cheers

Rob
HeliosPattern
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Re: Some Beginner Questions

Postby HeliosPattern » Mon Apr 04, 2022 10:31 am

Hey Rob,

Thanks a lot, this was very helpfull :)

Best regards!
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Rob Lane
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Re: Some Beginner Questions

Postby Rob Lane » Mon Apr 04, 2022 1:08 pm

You're welcome.

Cheers
Rob

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