Commander Options

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cwesterman13
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Commander Options

Postby cwesterman13 » Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:41 am

Am I right in thinking that restrictive options for commanders override normal additional options? for example, an Anglecynn Thegn with a Boga can take Ceorl bowmen as a sworn unit; whilst a Thegn with Guthuntsman would require a unit of Ceorl Huntsmen - is this an overriding rule, or does the option granted by the Boga still exist?

As a follow up; assuming as I do that the orange lines override anything else; is there any way this could be adjusted given the non-mount options which are currently gated behind un-usable options?
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Re: Commander Options

Postby Rob Lane » Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:57 am

cwesterman13 wrote:Am I right in thinking that restrictive options for commanders override normal additional options? for example, an Anglecynn Thegn with a Boga can take Ceorl bowmen as a sworn unit; whilst a Thegn with Guthuntsman would require a unit of Ceorl Huntsmen - is this an overriding rule, or does the option granted by the Boga still exist?


It's to do with the brown box - if that's present, that's a restrictive option, so if your commander purchases that, you can only have what's listed on the muster path linked to the brown box (a restrictive muster path).

cwesterman13 wrote:As a follow up; assuming as I do that the orange lines override anything else; is there any way this could be adjusted given the non-mount options which are currently gated behind un-usable options?


I'm not sure what you mean to be honest - what is it that you want to do? It may be easier to tell me that then I can see where you're going...

Cheers
Rob
cwesterman13
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Re: Commander Options

Postby cwesterman13 » Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:54 pm

Rob Lane wrote:
cwesterman13 wrote:Am I right in thinking that restrictive options for commanders override normal additional options? for example, an Anglecynn Thegn with a Boga can take Ceorl bowmen as a sworn unit; whilst a Thegn with Guthuntsman would require a unit of Ceorl Huntsmen - is this an overriding rule, or does the option granted by the Boga still exist?


It's to do with the brown box - if that's present, that's a restrictive option, so if your commander purchases that, you can only have what's listed on the muster path linked to the brown box (a restrictive muster path).

cwesterman13 wrote:As a follow up; assuming as I do that the orange lines override anything else; is there any way this could be adjusted given the non-mount options which are currently gated behind un-usable options?


I'm not sure what you mean to be honest - what is it that you want to do? It may be easier to tell me that then I can see where you're going...

Cheers
Rob


I was looking to use a Guthuntman Thegn to lead an allied contingent of Anglecynn!
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Re: Commander Options

Postby Rob Lane » Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:10 am

cwesterman13 wrote:I was looking to use a Guthuntman Thegn to lead an allied contingent of Anglecynn!


Ah, I see - no, with that option box being restrictive (i.e., brown) you can only take Ceorl Huntsmenn as your Sworn unit, and there's no miniatures out for those yet. Sorry man.

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Rob
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Re: Commander Options

Postby cwesterman13 » Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:08 am

Rob Lane wrote:
cwesterman13 wrote:I was looking to use a Guthuntman Thegn to lead an allied contingent of Anglecynn!


Ah, I see - no, with that option box being restrictive (i.e., brown) you can only take Ceorl Huntsmenn as your Sworn unit, and there's no miniatures out for those yet. Sorry man.

Cheers
Rob


Yeah, that was the crux of my second question - given that certain options like this for commanders are currently gated behind unreleased units, and therefore can't be used; would it be feasible to have those options be non-restrictive until the units are released? Like currently, Cadwaladr can't have a command if he's riding Lludial for the same reason, which is kinda sad for anyone who has that model! (not me, in this instance, just another example I knew off the top of my head!) Like, I get the flavour reasoning for requiring things like this; it just removes useful upgrades as options whilst the required units arent there!
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Re: Commander Options

Postby Rob Lane » Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:21 am

cwesterman13 wrote:Yeah, that was the crux of my second question - given that certain options like this for commanders are currently gated behind unreleased units, and therefore can't be used; would it be feasible to have those options be non-restrictive until the units are released?


Not really; the muster restrictions are there for definite reasons - most of them to do with lore, some of them to do with stopping powerful things; to change them would mean I'd have to re-evaluate everything, which I am loath to do. Besides, the musters are set in stone until September now.

I'll put it another way - in first edition, nobody got to see what was in my head (meaning, miniatures that we'll eventually do), and for second edition I made a conscious decision to let people see them, mainly because reworking the muster charts to not include the "not yet available" stuff would be a total pain. However, I'm already regretting my decision! It may well be that I'll remove all the different nya options altogether to be honest, just to stop this kind of hassle.

cwesterman13 wrote:Like currently, Cadwaladr can't have a command if he's riding Lludial for the same reason, which is kinda sad for anyone who has that model! (not me, in this instance, just another example I knew off the top of my head!) Like, I get the flavour reasoning for requiring things like this; it just removes useful upgrades as options whilst the required units arent there!


Well, you can still have Cadwaladr on his dragon, just not with a command - he can float around.

In many ways a lot of the restrictions are cake / eat it scenarios. You want Cadwaladr on Lludial as well as all his other benefits? Fine, but you'll have to take Marchomawr too. You can still take him, but he'll be on his own with no command of his own.

One last point: there is always a way to do what you're after. So whatever you're planning with this guthuntmsann, I'm sure there's a way to do what you want, but in a different manner. Have a think about it, or tell me more about what you want him to do and I'll point you in the right direction.

Cheers
Rob
cwesterman13
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Re: Commander Options

Postby cwesterman13 » Fri Jun 03, 2022 10:35 am

Rob Lane wrote:
cwesterman13 wrote:Yeah, that was the crux of my second question - given that certain options like this for commanders are currently gated behind unreleased units, and therefore can't be used; would it be feasible to have those options be non-restrictive until the units are released?


Not really; the muster restrictions are there for definite reasons - most of them to do with lore, some of them to do with stopping powerful things; to change them would mean I'd have to re-evaluate everything, which I am loath to do. Besides, the musters are set in stone until September now.

I'll put it another way - in first edition, nobody got to see what was in my head (meaning, miniatures that we'll eventually do), and for second edition I made a conscious decision to let people see them, mainly because reworking the muster charts to not include the "not yet available" stuff would be a total pain. However, I'm already regretting my decision! It may well be that I'll remove all the different nya options altogether to be honest, just to stop this kind of hassle.

cwesterman13 wrote:Like currently, Cadwaladr can't have a command if he's riding Lludial for the same reason, which is kinda sad for anyone who has that model! (not me, in this instance, just another example I knew off the top of my head!) Like, I get the flavour reasoning for requiring things like this; it just removes useful upgrades as options whilst the required units arent there!


Well, you can still have Cadwaladr on his dragon, just not with a command - he can float around.

In many ways a lot of the restrictions are cake / eat it scenarios. You want Cadwaladr on Lludial as well as all his other benefits? Fine, but you'll have to take Marchomawr too. You can still take him, but he'll be on his own with no command of his own.

One last point: there is always a way to do what you're after. So whatever you're planning with this guthuntmsann, I'm sure there's a way to do what you want, but in a different manner. Have a think about it, or tell me more about what you want him to do and I'll point you in the right direction.

Cheers
Rob


The Lludial point was purely demonstrative, to be fair - and taking Marchomawr will make me very happy once I can! I think visibility of the NYA options is great for non-tournament play and inspiring conversions; though I understand the headache on the crossover bits like this!

Whilst i'm sure my questions don't make it sound as such, i'm greatly enjoying puzzling out how to get all of the things I want in a list; though i'll admit the change to Companion's mounts had me swearing for a second! The idea with the Guthuntsman was to be able to make use of Anglecynn ranged artefacts, which are I think better for my purposes than the Brythoniaid options, and marksman to have a way of Sniping enemy nobles/mages out of squads with some effective stopping power. I can do it passably with an Uchelwr and Welsh artefacts, but the Thegn is cheaper base, the bow/arrow combination I wanted is overall better, and it has cheaper sworn options to join - since they'd mostly be there to prevent him getting (easily) sniped back. And I can't take it as an influenced warchief in the allied contingent, because a) i'd have to use a warlord commander to get the Authority to work, and i've already accounted for my warlord slots; and b) I want to influence a Wiglere into the command to get some of the nice Anglecynn magicks.
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Re: Commander Options

Postby Rob Lane » Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:04 am

cwesterman13 wrote:The Lludial point was purely demonstrative, to be fair - and taking Marchomawr will make me very happy once I can! I think visibility of the NYA options is great for non-tournament play and inspiring conversions; though I understand the headache on the crossover bits like this!


It can be quite challenging!

cwesterman13 wrote:Whilst i'm sure my questions don't make it sound as such, i'm greatly enjoying puzzling out how to get all of the things I want in a list; though i'll admit the change to Companion's mounts had me swearing for a second!


Yeah, apologies for that; I'd needed to close some companion loopholes for a while.

I'm very glad you're enjoying the puzzle though! At some point this year myself and Jereme will be getting the second edition muster program up on the website, so it will be a lot easier once that's in place.

cwesterman13 wrote:The idea with the Guthuntsman was to be able to make use of Anglecynn ranged artefacts, which are I think better for my purposes than the Brythoniaid options, and marksman to have a way of Sniping enemy nobles/mages out of squads with some effective stopping power. I can do it passably with an Uchelwr and Welsh artefacts, but the Thegn is cheaper base, the bow/arrow combination I wanted is overall better, and it has cheaper sworn options to join - since they'd mostly be there to prevent him getting (easily) sniped back. And I can't take it as an influenced warchief in the allied contingent, because a) i'd have to use a warlord commander to get the Authority to work, and i've already accounted for my warlord slots; and b) I want to influence a Wiglere into the command to get some of the nice Anglecynn magicks.


Ah, got you. You could use an ordfruma as an IW for the same purpose? I know he's not as effective as the thegn but he could still do a job I'm sure. But if you want that wiglere too, well... you have a choice to make!

Cheers
Rob
cwesterman13
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Re: Commander Options

Postby cwesterman13 » Sun Jun 05, 2022 12:17 pm

Rob Lane wrote:
cwesterman13 wrote:The idea with the Guthuntsman was to be able to make use of Anglecynn ranged artefacts, which are I think better for my purposes than the Brythoniaid options, and marksman to have a way of Sniping enemy nobles/mages out of squads with some effective stopping power. I can do it passably with an Uchelwr and Welsh artefacts, but the Thegn is cheaper base, the bow/arrow combination I wanted is overall better, and it has cheaper sworn options to join - since they'd mostly be there to prevent him getting (easily) sniped back. And I can't take it as an influenced warchief in the allied contingent, because a) i'd have to use a warlord commander to get the Authority to work, and i've already accounted for my warlord slots; and b) I want to influence a Wiglere into the command to get some of the nice Anglecynn magicks.


Ah, got you. You could use an ordfruma as an IW for the same purpose? I know he's not as effective as the thegn but he could still do a job I'm sure. But if you want that wiglere too, well... you have a choice to make!

Cheers
Rob


The Ordfruma had been considered, but doesn't have the skill to fulfill the intended purpose! The best available option is to use an Uchelwr I think, but that leaves the disappointing Brythoniaid bow selection!

Thanks anyways!
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Re: Commander Options

Postby Rob Lane » Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:24 am

cwesterman13 wrote:The Ordfruma had been considered, but doesn't have the skill to fulfill the intended purpose! The best available option is to use an Uchelwr I think, but that leaves the disappointing Brythoniaid bow selection!

Thanks anyways!


No worries, happy to help.

Cheers
Rob

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