Soaring/Diving into Hold and Shriek, Attack Shoot React vs Land and Grab and Soar

[Crazyguy501]

Hey Rob thought I’d post these three situational scenarios as they all involve some form of Soaring/Diving action and reactions to them.

First one is probably the more complex, of engaging a shrieking unit from soaring/circling/diving. Hold and Shriek mentions you can do it before, during or after the engager has completed its engage move. ‘During’ I had assumed meant during half engage move distance from the engager. In which for soaring/diving units engagers is 20 inches plus 2d10 then the result is halved. But from the perspective of my local jutes player, it’s actually any point? So he can just do it as soon as they would enter shriek range. Shriek (successfully) then cause the engaging diving unit to follow the uncontrolled landing process and end up god knows where on the battlefield! For reference I’ve been looking at 7.10.6.2 through to 7.10.6.2.1 wheras the Jutes player had 7.10.6.8 to reference. My hope was to hopefully avoid being shrieked at by being either too far away and then for him to instead choose to shriek as I engage, which would at least stop me from an uncontrolled landing. He’d still be able to hit first in combat first as I’d be confused. But then I’d be able to attack react etc. pages are on 354 and 355.

A more simpler one I think Shoot Reaction can be done as long as a target enemy unit approaches (moves closer) towards the Shoot reacting unit. If a soarer were to land on the battlefield does that allow for a shoot reaction even if it’s nowhere near close the shoot reacting unit?

And finally one that came up, a hrossothir charge engaged some gasts, it’s tried to grab and soar a gast. (Which it failed on this occasion.) however the jutes player informed me as the hrossothir wasn’t under Flank orders it can’t grab and soar as you need to be on Flank orders. Is this correct? I think upon reflection I don’t think I could anyway as I swift engaged (charged) the gast unit, I don’t think I can fly charge then grab and soar. It’s too many linked actions and would be weary after the charge action.

Basically all in all, just trying to meticulously work out these scenarios around Jutes/Shriekers in general. And simply put it may be better for Soaring units to not even bother soaring against these types of units and just stick their feet closer to the earth. Better learning now instead of a midst of a battle too!

Many thanks

James

[Rob Lane]

Hey Rob thought I’d post these three situational scenarios as they all involve some form of Soaring/Diving action and reactions to them.

First one is probably the more complex, of engaging a shrieking unit from soaring/circling/diving. Hold and Shriek mentions you can do it before, during or after the engager has completed its engage move. ‘During’ I had assumed meant during half engage move distance from the engager. In which for soaring/diving units engagers is 20 inches plus 2d10 then the result is halved. But from the perspective of my local jutes player, it’s actually any point? So he can just do it as soon as they would enter shriek range. Shriek (successfully) then cause the engaging diving unit to follow the uncontrolled landing process and end up god knows where on the battlefield! For reference I’ve been looking at 7.10.6.2 through to 7.10.6.2.1 wheras the Jutes player had 7.10.6.8 to reference. My hope was to hopefully avoid being shrieked at by being either too far away and then for him to instead choose to shriek as I engage, which would at least stop me from an uncontrolled landing. He’d still be able to hit first in combat first as I’d be confused. But then I’d be able to attack react etc. pages are on 354 and 355.

Okay - in these sorts of confusing situations, go with what makes sense. Why would a shrieker Shriek at something that's miles away? He'd wait until it was close. The Hold and Shriek reaction states this, and 7.10.6.2 to 7.10.6.2.1 are superseded by 7.10.6.8, really, but I'll make sure that's clear.

A more simpler one I think Shoot Reaction can be done as long as a target enemy unit approaches (moves closer) towards the Shoot reacting unit. If a soarer were to land on the battlefield does that allow for a shoot reaction even if it’s nowhere near close the shoot reacting unit?

Actually that's fairly complicated! You can make the argument that you could have been closer before you Landed, mind. So what I would say is this (and I'll put it in the rules) - whenever a soarer does this, after he Lands, calculate the range from the shooting unit to the soarer while he was in the air. If he's then closer when he Lands, the unit can Shoot react.

And finally one that came up, a hrossothir charge engaged some gasts, it’s tried to grab and soar a gast. (Which it failed on this occasion.) however the jutes player informed me as the hrossothir wasn’t under Flank orders it can’t grab and soar as you need to be on Flank orders. Is this correct? I think upon reflection I don’t think I could anyway as I swift engaged (charged) the gast unit, I don’t think I can fly charge then grab and soar. It’s too many linked actions and would be weary after the charge action.

This is very interesting and after a discussion with Joe on WhatsApp I think you guys have found a major flaw - for which you gain my thanks!

First up though, you don't need to be on FLANK orders to Grab and Soar; you can do it regardless of orders. However, I may need to clarify that in the requirements of the Soar action.

Okay. The flaw here is the "one linked action", which really is a problem because if it were adhered to you couldn't Chase or Breakthrough after a Charge attack, for example. The intention of the "one linked action" rule is to stop you doing all of the linked actions listed at the end of an action, which it does, but then breaks the above. Your example is Charge -> Attack (Grab) -> Grab and Soar, which is two linked actions, which is prohibited by the "one linked action" rule.

Much thunking has drawn me to this (hopefully simple) fix: one voluntary linked action. If it's compulsory or involuntary, it's not restricted, which means the above works and players can't Walk -> Shoot -> Walk.

If you guys think that will create further problems, tell me...

Basically all in all, just trying to meticulously work out these scenarios around Jutes/Shriekers in general. And simply put it may be better for Soaring units to not even bother soaring against these types of units and just stick their feet closer to the earth. Better learning now instead of a midst of a battle too!

No worries, I'm glad you're doing so! Keep it up!

Some great stuff here guys.

Cheers
Rob