Counter engage/charge for Frenzied Clarification

[Bishmeister]

Hey Rob,

As debated at length on the watsapp group.

My original question was:

Counter Engage/Charge Pg.360.
From my understanding a frenzied unit has just run towards the nearest enemy during it's activation and failed to reach them. They then get swift charged by that enemy and the frenzied unit can counter charge them.

Attacks are then performed in skill order by both engaged units.

Question 1
Does the counter engaging unit get to attack again, either the same unit or if a different unit attacks them?

Question 2
During the discussion around this there was some consternation that a unit would lose it's ability to swift charge as during a counter charge it only moves up to half it's charge range then the counter charging unit meets it. This was felt to be over penalising as the unit charged first so would have more momentum than the counter charging unit which maybe be able to benefit from a swift charge and the bonuses it confers.

One solution to this scenario would be that charging units that are counter charged move upto 1" over their Pace value, when counter charged, giving them the swift charge bonuses. unless, the counter charge rule has been specifically designed this was of course.

Cheers Rob

[Bishmeister]

Also, do both units gain the +1 charge strike modifier?

If a larger mass unit (120mm base) counter engages a unit of smaller mass warriors (60mm bases) do the smaller mass units get to attack move around the larger unit to get as many warriors into base contact.
is this performed before attacks?

As, if not, there may only be one or two engaged warriors in base contact from the smaller unit which will affect how many attacks they can perform as they would normally go first due to their higher skill.

[Rob Lane]

Hey Rob,

As debated at length on the watsapp group.

My original question was:

Counter Engage/Charge Pg.360.
From my understanding a frenzied unit has just run towards the nearest enemy during it's activation and failed to reach them. They then get swift charged by that enemy and the frenzied unit can counter charge them.

Attacks are then performed in skill order by both engaged units.

Question 1
Does the counter engaging unit get to attack again, either the same unit or if a different unit attacks them?

No, only if a different unit Attacks them. They have already re-activated to Counter-Engage and are alert (because they are Frenzied).

Question 2
During the discussion around this there was some consternation that a unit would lose it's ability to swift charge as during a counter charge it only moves up to half it's charge range then the counter charging unit meets it. This was felt to be over penalising as the unit charged first so would have more momentum than the counter charging unit which maybe be able to benefit from a swift charge and the bonuses it confers.

One solution to this scenario would be that charging units that are counter charged move upto 1" over their Pace value, when counter charged, giving them the swift charge bonuses. unless, the counter charge rule has been specifically designed this was of course.

Cheers Rob

A good point, although a simpler solution would be to ensure that as long as the Engaging unit actually Moves half its PACE (might not due to terrain, etc.) it counts as a Swift Engagement.
How does that sound?

Also, do both units gain the +1 charge strike modifier?

Yes, as both are Charging.

If a larger mass unit (120mm base) counter engages a unit of smaller mass warriors (60mm bases) do the smaller mass units get to attack move around the larger unit to get as many warriors into base contact.
is this performed before attacks?

No, as they stop half-way and then the Counter-Engagers meet them. After the Engagers / Counter-Engagers have both Attacked, however, it could be that the original Engager could Attack Move some of their unused warriors into combat - see p226, Follow-on Attack actions.

As, if not, there may only be one or two engaged warriors in base contact from the smaller unit which will affect how many attacks they can perform as they would normally go first due to their higher skill.

See p226...

Cheers
Rob

[Bishmeister]

Cheers for clarifying this Rob.
Solution for swift engage sounds good to me